Yes, fundamental, Lin is better. just finished reviewing 2nd Q, believe it or not beverley "drift" quite often, which people usually think it's Lin's bad habit. helped 1 pass away several times and lead to 1 open 3 but they missed. in PNR defense he is not so good as some ppl thought, he get cought on screen very often too, and he just get used to let the ball handler go middle lead to busy rotation on our defense. Lin seldom lost position, drift one time to double team a post play but he sneak up from behind so I say it's a good help defend. people may just remember Beverley blocked CP3 in the last play but who would remember Lin helped disabled those PNRs, its just "unflashy" and spectators wont cheer on it because most of them dont know BBall well. While Bev play bad PNR defense cause chaos on our defense and opponent scored on our other defenders who would trace back and find out it was his fault at first. Another interesting find is Asik is a much better PNR defender than Dwright, step up and delay all the time and recover fast, he and Lin is a good partner. Instead Dwright just get used to lazily shadow inside, doesnt ice neither hedge, when our man get picked off, he have to rotate and cover the ball handler, the whole defense have to rotate and usually lead to a easy shot. worst defender is no doubt harden, one time he suddenly stop chasing his man and take a rest right in the middle of the paint, it led to a wide open 3. the other time he get caught flat footed and get beat off dribble, defense have to rotate eventually led to another open 3. He just lack of fundamental, does not duck down enough to lower his gravity center, that's why even Steve Blake got him in the lakers game.
I'm not discounting his impact, but I think it's 100% disingenuous to ignore the fact that the run also coincided with discarding TT.
bev is better, but not by this huge amount that people are suggesting here. They both leave their man too much. They both have trouble getting thru screen for different reasons. Lin is too big to slip over the screen so he goes under them too much. But Bev gets picked off by the screen too much trying to initiate contact to get fouls. All this talk about Bev locking down Paul is interesting cause it doesn't account for Paul's foul trouble last night or Lin's foul trouble in the first game. Or the fact that the team defense was alot better in the second game. Harden making more of a defensive effort on his man last night also made Paul's job alittle harder. But that corner 3 to crawford(I think it was crawford) that Lin overplayed on was bad tho. It seems to be defensive team philosophy for the guard to do that in general but that was dumb. And even tho they have different skillsets, they are both very similiar players in their approach to the game. They are both prone to having lapses from overplaying. Lin with his turnovers and Bev with fouls. The bipolar attitude of fans on this board about this two young guards is hilarious tho.
The results of this poll show how distorted the conversation on CF has become. Ironic that the Jeremy Beliebers complain about him being bullied, while they themselves use the tactic of sheer mass to try to strongarm reality. LOF's are the worst thing that ever happened to ClutchFans.
Who actually pays attention to polls on a forum? LOF are annoying but damn, they are "strongarming reality" is alittle much. Especially since that one dude actually posted actual stats that they are both pretty comparable(which i dont agree with since i think Bev is better.) But I have a 2013 register date so you prob wont take my opinion seriously.
Yes, strangely around the time Bev started getting some playing time... BOF? Hahaha. JK. I hate people that are labeled one thing or another just by their Join Date. But that goes both ways... Just bc someone joined CF within the last year or so doesn't mean they're an LOF either, even if they feel like Lin is better than Bev. Everyone should stop with all the labeling and name calling and just make their points with supportable facts.
I thought OP nailed it pretty well with his short by sweet description of their defensive prowess. too many people mistake hustle for great defending ability...bev picks up fouls too easily with his style, and it is really like a toney douglas sort of tactic. that being said, overall, i would still put bev a bit ahead of lin on defense, but not something where it generally would make a huge difference.
I can understand the frustration of having a board being bombarded with LOF but at the same time, it does go both ways. How are people so sure where bev and lin will end up in their game? Chauncey billups didnt happen overnight and hes a championship PG. Conversely guys like Kenny Anderson(damn I just dated myself) was supposed to be the truth coming out of school and he never did much. I did love me some Kenny Anderson tho. People say some of the craziest things criticizing bev and lin, just in the game threads alone. They both traveled these amazing unpredictable winding paths to get to the NBA but somehow we all know what their career will be like? this early? really?
The thing is, if Clutch and the mods wanted reasonable discussion, they would clamp down on a lot of the blatant trolling and name-calling, because that stuff never helps to create a culture of discourse. Those guys will always pull everything down into the mud with them, and no amount of ignore lists management will help you with it. Nobody who wants to talk to someone without getting called a bunch of middle-school names is going to go out of their way to deal with the kind of BS that passes for "normal" discussion on these boards. They'll just go somewhere else. It's gotten to the point here where nobody even bothers reading the posts or focusing on the content. They're so emotionally defensive about their identity on this message board and making sure they're in the right "group" that the discussion becomes largely symbolic. It's all a chest-thumping exercise. Even in this case, the OP makes a perfectly reasonable point but wraps it in so much hyperbole that it becomes toxic. Lin's lack of 3's is KILLING THE TEAM? Really? Why not just say "I want Lin to shoot more 3's because he would probably make them and it would help the team" or "I think Lin should stop driving so much and take the open 3 more readily"? So lost in that perfectly valid point, along with a perfectly valid discussion, is all this noise and brouhaha about whether or not the OP is scapegoating Lin and why Lin is the one "killing the team" when there are other much larger issues hurting it right now. People are going to continue to react emotionally and revert to internet tribalism so long as the discussion is not moderated to prevent that kind of environment from forming in the first place.
agreed, it's actually pathetic. they run rampet now and hate any player who seems to conflict with Lin being the top scorer. They're the first to talk crap about beverly, and think we should put harden on the bench so lin can shine.
The eye test ok- go watch them play. Remember when Harold Minor "looked" like he was going to be the next Michael Jordan? They even called him Baby Jordan. How did that turn out. The eye test only counts if it comes from people who actually know the game.
Dude there is a reason why BEV WAS VOTED AS A DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR CANDIDATE by the MEDIA AND COACHES for this upcoming season. The guy is an elite defender.
Exactly! Bev's problem isn't that he likes to play high energy D. It's that he make more bad plays than good ones. He looks great stripping a defender once or twice a game but when you look at how many times he's not even defending his guy on the perimeter so that he can play the lane, he gives up way more points than he helps prevent.
ESPN had a poll from the coaches Dwight, Asik and BEV were all ranked in the defensive player of the year candidates.
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/DPOY1314/2013-14-defensive-player-year Is this what you're referring to? I think when people request citation they also want a link.
