HARDEN/LIN Potential to be best back court in the NBA with right coach?

Harden's defense would make the Tracy McGrady's look like defensive players of the year!

 

to a lesser extent? go back and watch the games last season. he would trail non starting pgs by a big stretch. I remember kendal marshall abusing him. perimeter d, pick and roll d, is a team effort too.

 

You clearly have not played organized basketball.

Even a mediocre pick stops the defender for about a 10th of a second. Nash took only 2 steps and one dribble past the pick, and had ample space to make a quick pass. The space was there because Harden was sitting there, eating popcorn and watching Nash become MVP again.

If Nash had taken 3 or 4 dribbles, then yes, you have an argument that that pick should not have stopped Lin from getting to Nash. But that "mediocre" pick and acres of open space was more then sufficient for Nash to pull off that play.

You do not have to work so hard to try to shift the blame from Harden onto others. We all have eyes and brains and can see and judge the plays for ourselves.

 

I have seen Beverley fight through picks better than either Lin or Harden. Beverley is not consistent doing it, but I have seen him do it well before, more than I can say for the rest of the backcourt.

Of course it is a team effort, that is where communication and consistency comes into play. However, in that particular play there is a weak pick that should have been broken through easily. However, as I said, there were a number of mistakes in that same play by 3 Rockets at least.

 

This makes no sense.

You don't just go around a 7ft screener that his leaning his shoulder into you. Nash rubs off screens as good as anyone. You make a decision to either go over or under the screen. If you go over, you're always going to be trailing your guy initially. That is why you're supposed to have plan to defend the PnR. Your big either has to come out, show, and recover or trap. That is why when you talk about good PnR defense, you always talk about the big, not the guy coming over the screen. Dwight does nothing in this sequence. Not sure if that's because he's just being lazy or because the coach doesn't have a PnR plan, but clearly, he's just standing there committed to nothing.

I'll even give Harden a bit of a pass here, because he's forced to watch Nash and rotate over if Nash heads into the paint, because Lin went over the pick and Dwight is not stopping the ball.

 

I agree. Lin played that as well as you can. He went over the screen and was in a good position to recover. Dwight was in a good position to challenge Nash if he went to the basket.

 

I played in college for 2 years.

No, you cannot fall for every pick or regardless of how well you switch, you will have mismatches. Especially over the last few years you have seen offenses develop sets with multiple picks.

Further, the "space" was not there because of Harden. The space would have been every bit as ample if Blake was standing in the corner for a three.

Once Nash has a step and a half on Lin and is going towards the basket, everyone reacts and that leaves some one open.

I am NOT defending Harden, he should have been aware of Blake breaking from the corner towards the basket, which he wasn't. However, Lin never should have allowed Nash to get a step and a half on him and Howard never should have let Kaman get position.

You can judge plays for yourself, unfortunately you don't know what you are talking about.

 

I'm surprise that you think fail to fight through the screen, didn't get a better position and standing there ball watching didn't even know where's your assignment(he's not even helping Lin to cover Nash) is the same problem. You probably just looking for excuse for Harden.

 

Well, then it is clear your 2 years of basketball in college have not served you well.

Look, at the end of the day, that gif demonstrates how pathetic Harden's energy and commitment is on defence. Not all the time, but still, at least a significant amount of the time.

I don't even know why you are calling Lin out for that play. Maybe you have an agenda, but I can't be bothered with finding a label for you.

Ultimately, let's just chalk things up to both of us not knowing what we are talking about.

Ta.

 

Yes Nash is one of the best ever using screens, however that was a mediocre screen and it was obviously developing before the play as well. You do not get stuck on the outside like that, you fight through the screen (especially when you see the angle of the screener). All he had to do was shy inside, not get taken out of the play like that. It was poorly played.

Harden does not need a pass, Nash had a path to the basket regardless, but he needs to know what Blake is doing, he could have easily cut him off. Harden is constantly ball watching and reacting slowly.

I agree with you on Howard, he was out of position and also allowed Kaman to get position on him.

The only player that reacted quickly was Parsons.

The entire defensive reaction to the set sucked..... my initial point, was and still is, to look at Harden and laugh at his play on that play is short sighted, there were multiple mistakes from Rockets defenders and is indicative of the Rockets defensive struggles.

 

Two years of college ball served me fine (if only I was more explosive). I never said that Harden deserves a pass and I did not only call out Lin on that play, I stated numerous times there were multiple mistakes by Rockets defenders just in that few second GIF.

It is ignorant to single out a player in a GIF and rip them when there are just as bad defensive errors by multiple players in the same GIF.

 

Nah. Harden is too "Kobe" to be part of a best backcourt duo. Not saying he's not a great player, but he doesn't seem to trust his teammates.

 

Dude, you're looking for something that isn't there. Lin did exactly what you're saying, getting through a shoulder and knee of Gasol and ended up trailing his man because no one jumped out on him to slow him down. PnR defense is a team concept.

The question I'm left with is how do you prepare to play against a D'Antoni team with no plan for defending PnR?

 

Listen. I am ok with having Lin on the bench. And before I was very much opposed to it. We saw what we had in Lin last year. Post ASB Lin was balling and he has gotten better this year. Now we need to see what we have with bev. In a few years only Lin or bev will still be on this team not both. This team isn't winning a title this year. i think next year is really our time. Let's see what we have with Bev and if he is really a starting PG he has the entire season to start. Lin right now more than anything needs credibility in the NBA. Ever since Harden left OKC the 6MOY award is wide open for the taking. If Lin keeps balling like I think he is capable of at 6M he can definitely win and deserve the award. That will give him the credibility he desperately seeks. Nobody will be calling him flash in the pan, overpaid, scrub anymore if he gets 6MOY and he can play with more confidence. Beverly gets a chance to start something he has always wanted, Lin gets a shot a credibility and this team gets to decide once and for all who is our PG of the future.

 

I don't agree Lin did what he is supposed to do.

As far as how to prepare to play against good P&R teams, it was a problem for the Rockets last year too.

I think that communication, discipline and consistency are the problems, not a lack of a game plan. The plan is the same for virtually every team, it comes down to communication.

You can get away screwing things up if you are doing a majority of things properly. Chicago is an excellent example of that, same with Indy. Hill is too slow to guard many point guards, but it isn't an issue because their bigs and other perimeter players switch properly and are where they are supposed to be. Hill knows that if he loses his man, he will probably have coverage, and will know where he needs to be.

On the current Rockets Harden half the time is watching the ball and guarding a spot on the floor. You never know if he will switch properly (when he does switch he only goes to a certain spot on the floor often). He does not alert his teammates of developing screens either.

Lin does not fight through picks, and he tends to trust his gut on switches, so there is a lack of trust from his teammates as to where he will be. Making it worse, in our defense he has to switch with Harden often and there is no communication.

Parsons is active and quickly will switch, but half the time no one bothers to pick up Parsons' man which results in easy shots.

Asik is a good defender, and calls out screens but often times lacks the lateral quickness to cut off a driving guard that has gotten by Lin or Harden.

The Rockets players need to buy into each other and consistently execute their checks and switches. Right now they don't do that. I think it will get better... the question is how much better.

 

Most likely neither will be on the team

 

Maybe. Harden can definitely play unselfishly when he wants to (as you've pointed out), but I don't know if a coach can make him do so consistently. And most certainly not McHale who, despite criticizing the ball for being "sticky" constantly, still allows Harden to ISO more than desired.