so we have harden and howard on the floor and you expect coaches to care about bev's "elite" spot shooting?
Yes, but that SAS 3Q was one of our best quarters of the preseason, and it featured a lineup of Bev/TT. So there's some evidence to support that this could be a very effective lineup, hence TRY it out.
What you said was not fact, or at least did not hold up to scrutiny. As was easily pointed out in the comparative ball-hawk example. And that is the problem I, and I think others, have with what you said. The goal of your thread seemed pretty clear, regardless of who was not explicitly mentioned or who was mentioned. As someone with a long history of interpretation of writing and critiquing writing, I had little difficulty in sensing what your initial post seemed to be implying. Also, you seem to have gone back to the ad hominem attack. Meaning, attack the messenger rather than his message. Before, you did the condescending thing about "OMG LIN HIT 43% THREES" thing. Now you have gone to the "zealot" Lin fan card. As I said previously, I don't think you're helping yourself much with these tactics and you may actually be putting people off who might otherwise listen to your arguments. Of course we will see what happens with whatever lineup the team rolls out. No doubt about that, and I don't think anyone was disagreeing with you. The disagreement, at least by me, was in how your presented the "case" for the starting lineup with Beverley. I found the case to be a flawed one, and thus uncompelling. I am not emotional about this really at all. And as someone with a long history of writing and commentating, I expect people to disagree or find fault with my takes often. It's not personal, it's just I didn't find what you said to be compelling and I pointed out what I thought were the flaws in your presentation.
so far we have tried it out for 8 times... 3 preseason and 5 regular season... it worked 1 time with memphis... in the portland game we let them score 30 pts in the first quarter anyway... so defensively we didnt really stop them with the TT... starting 5 doesnt have to start the 3rd quarter as well... how about try start with casspi on 3 bev on 1 then on the 3rd quarter go with TT and Bev? I dont care about who starts between lin or bev, my concern is with the TT...
Not sure I follow, I'm talking specifically about a Bev+TT lineup that includes Parsons and Harden. That's the projected starting lineup we want to test out because that was the lineup that give us our best quarters in the preseason. (Once again, basing on preseason quarters because we don't have samples of a HEALTHY Beverley in this lineup during the regular season).
I'm talking about the TT line up, don't care about the rest... so far from what I have seen based on 8 games, TT + Bev or Lin makes no difference... but TT vs Howard + PF makes a huge difference offensively... while the drop off defensively is not huge....
Why would we put Casspi at the 4? The whole point of putting Beverley in the starting lineup is because his "addition" somehow makes the TT most effective (I assume according to the stats the Rockets have collected thus far). That's part of the reason for PG change. We're trying to make the TT work, not dismantle it by replacing Asik or Howard with Casspi.
based on all the games so far including preseason, TT does not work regardless of who plays the point... Bev has started with TT for 4 games, Lin has started with TT for 4 games... and so far it only worked on MEM... the result if our first quarters are surprisingly similar regardless of which point guard starts... only difference is that when Bev starts the game, Lin and Casspi comes in at the 6min mark at the first quarter... then our offense gets a little better... there was also the Mav game where Asik sits after playing only for 52 secs (big mistake by dirk) and casspi came in at the 4 position, we blew them out of the 1st quarter... this for me is evidence that our offense is alot better with casspi at 4
I know what you mean, but you're really missing my point. What fans want is different from what the Rockets want. Right now the only 3 players that matter are Harden, Howard, and Asik. Those are the three that the coaches are determined to figure out how to work together. So whatever conversations we have stops there. It makes no difference to bring in any PF not named Howard or Asik. Around these 3 key players (Harden/Howard/Asik) you put next to them what you think are the most complimentary role players (Bev/Parsons). That really is all that there is too it. Mind you, Morey doesn't think the TT will work, but that doesn't matter. As long as McHale & Sampson think they can get it to work, that's what we'll see.
Clutchfans.net tells be that we are only discuss what fans think... unless we can have someone from the rockets FO tell us what they think...
so your saying is that, Howard, Asik and Harden starting job cannot be discussed? and Parsons\lin\bev starting job can be discussed? lol stop making rules if you don't have any arguments... I can discuss whom ever I want as long as I make a valid point... this is clutchfans.net not rockets FO lol
Your being disingenuous. If that was the point of this thread, then maybe you should have actually waited before you started it. Instead, your throwing out stats from a sample of 8 mins. of play. If you don't believe that stats from 8 mins of play means anything, then why put it up?
I'm not saying they can't be discussed, I'm just saying the OP's focus was on the TT. By moving away from this point, you have started another argument that belongs in the other threads. Actually, I suggest that you go re-read the OP, because you either misunderstood it or posted in the wrong thread.
Lin can stand in the corner like Bev if you want floor spacing. The offense slows down with Howard and Asik in the game. The Rockets need Lin in the starting line up to get the offense to flow.
how am I moving away from the point? OP is discussing that TT so far does not work, however he stated that based on the miniscule sample size of the regular season with Bev + TT, that it might work... what I am saying is that, Starting TT does not work regardless of who is the point guard... TT might work some part of the game but certainly not at the start...
It's still to early to "high" on Bev. Let's wait for some more games before we can really say he's the missing link.
I think TT working isn't dependent on PG play but on the system. I think this will work if you have a triangle even if you don't have a PG. Bulls doesn't really need a very good PG in the 90s. Lakers is the same during their "recent" championship years. Even their frontcourt pairing didn't need a long-shooting PF. Well, I'm not saying that we adopt the same system but it just tells us that in the right system, a TT can work even if you don't have that stretch 4.
In addition to the 8 regular season minutes, the TT with Bev had rather spectacular results in 26 minutes of play in the preseason. According to Jason Friedman: Rockets' preseason offensive/defensive rating when Howard, Asik and Beverley shared the floor: 115.4 OER and 67.3 DER in 26 minutes They will certainly try TT+Bev out. I love having Omer in Houston. The bigger concern I have though is that no matter how successful TT might be (and that is a big "if"), I don't see Omer being happy in the role he could have in Houston, even if they go with TT, long term. Not for 2 years, and certainly not after that. He is a professional, and try to do a good job. But does it really make sense to force someone who does want that role, to be here? Will he give it an all out, full effort -- the kind of effort that will be required in the playoffs? And do the Rockets really want to risk their window of opportunity for title contention on this possibility?
See, this is why you confuse me. What exactly do you have against the Rockets trying out a Bev+TT lineup? How do you know that it won't work? There's at least a small sample size to indicate that it could work, but you rather we just don't even try it. That makes no sense. We definitely should test it out with Bev before we blow up the whole thing and say it doesn't work. What exactly is there to lose?
