[ClutchFans] Rockets to begin season with Beverley, Asik as starters; Jeremy Lin off bench

totally agree, i'm a big Lin fan, but Cp3 is in a different league.

 

No he hasn't. Thats why when Doc came to coach lob city this summer he was quoted in telling cp3 that he wasn't or hasn't done ****. And cp3 copped to it and said that Doc was right.

Someone can bring up the link to the quote

 

I think you are cherry picking superlatives. If CP3 is remarkable, then MJ/Lebron are unheard-of or otherworldly. On a scale of 1 to 10 Lebron and Jordan are 15's.

Bringing up NBA championships and playoff success is a whole other debate. I'm not going there, and what I said before pretty much states my case for not going there. You might as well start downplaying the talent of T-Mac, Dominique Wilkins, Mutumbo, Webber, Bernard King, and Piston Pete Maravich because of their lack of success in the postseason.

All I can say is in the postseason production wise- CP3 has been very, very good every year except 08-09. He's averaged 20/10 his whole career in the postseason, and his defensive rating jumped up an average of 5 Pts in the postseason. You can blame CP3 about as much as you can blame Dominique, Mutumbo, Webber, T-Mac, or whomever for not taking their teams all the way.

 

I am disagreeing with you at all. It's that I just don't think he deserves all the great PG of our time title he seems to be getting here... He's great player that's far better than ours. However, I just don't think he can win you the title... If he can't do it with Clippers with all the support he's getting, then he won't be able to do it with other teams. Unless you have better player that ends up carrying the team. That's all I was trying to say. My intention was not cherry picking or negating your post.

 

Damn, should be I am NOT disagreeing... This thread needs edits badly or I need to start proof reading...

 

Do you not remember back a few years ago when T-Mac was quoting himself saying "Its on me" to Stephen A??

Star players do this crap all the time. Fact is T-Mac, and CP3 did and have so far produced very well in the playoffs, but as leaders they put the blame on themselves.

Seriously who really cares???... Would your odds of winning a title be worse with CP3 leading your team instead of Derrick Fisher???... Fisher has won more in the playoffs, does that mean you would rather have him even during his prime??? This argument is ridiculous, and is for a whole separate conversation outside of this thread.

Point is- stop comparing Lin and CP3. Its unfair to both players.

 

Being a great player and winning a championship are two different things. Winning it all takes a team...just ask Jordan or Lebron (as great as these two guys, without the right pieces you ain't going far).

 

Cherry picking was just about the superlatives.

Very true that he can't win you a title on his own... very few players in the history of the game can get you there on their own.... maybe 1 or 2. Its about having the right pieces around your best players first and foremost.

Is CP3 the best PG in the game right now???... maybe, but that's only if you are talking about traditional PG's. There aren't really any other players in the NBA right now that can run an offense with the precision that CP3 can. However you have other players listed at PG like Westbrook, and Rose who can be equally if not more impactful playing the game in a completely different way.

The fact is, CP3 is still very much elite in his own way, and its unfair to compare Lin to him. Lin is a much different type of PG/SG in the way he plays his game. If CP3 Vs. Westbrook is Apples and Oranges, CP3 vs. Lin is Apples & pomegranates.

 

Yes, but ultimately players/fans/teams strive to win the title. This league is Elite talent driven. With today's salary cap, you want a great "Elite" player that can lead your team to the Championship with the right support. I just don't see it with CP3... Even with right supporting talent (Clippers) last year, he wasn't able to even get out of the first round. We shall see this year as he no longer have excuse.
What I don't like is everyone thinks having CP3 on their team would automatically make them contender. It has not been the case so far and until he proves otherwise, I won't buy it.

 

If you become a contributing member, one of the perks is being able to edit, which I use all the time.

 

We already have one of that player: Dwight Howard single handedly took Orlando to Championship. I would value Dwight way over CP3. Also, where did Lin vs CP3 come from?

 

OK, I will take that offer. But, just to make it interesting, I will be in Vegas this weekend and will put a bet on the Rockets against Clippers this Saturday. Proceeds from that wining will go to Tip Jar.

 

CP3 is a great player. Is he better than Stockton and Nash? Nash yeah, Stockton, don't think so. He takes care of the ball better than Nash, but Stockton was so tough. Nash's defense lets him down.

Lin needs to develop better handles and he will. But besides that he needs a more reliable tear-drop/floater, what Tony Parker and CP3 live by, and he needs to take mid-range shots, what CP3 lives by. If Lin's 3 pointer is falling he's too one-dimensional with trying to drive so much. Adding a stop-n-pop pull up/fadeaway/step-back, whatever, that he can drain with some consistency will make him a more dangerous player. His D is good when he doesn't over help.

 

Lin has a good mid range game. Its the Rockets philosphy that prevents him from popping it all too often.

 

Stockton is so overrated. He did not deserve Dream Team spot over Isiah Thomas. And that's not just because I could not stand his whining puke of a face. :grin:

 

Then good luck! -

 

I would too because of the overall impact of dominant big men vs. dominant PG's. Just no comparison to how much impact a big has vs. a guard in the game of basketball.

Discussion earlier when folks were gauging CP3's first year in comparison to Lin's to somehow come up with a conclusion that they weren't that far apart in their first few years. Basically if you combine all their minutes in the first 3 seasons for each player, and judge "per 36 minutes" they aren't that far off.

However, you are taking a sample size of the first two seasons in which Lin barely played, and CP3 was averaging 35+ minutes a game so its definitely cherry picking stats. Even if you look at Lin's production last year and compare it to CP3's rookie stats its still not very close, and I get kinda tired of hearing the notion that last year was essentially Lin's rookie season. In PT maybe... but you can't discount the knowledge of the game, his experience in the D-League to Linsanity, and his physical growth during those two years.

However, as a 2nd or 3rd year player, he played well overall, and showed that he can do some things really well, some things not-so-well, and there are other things he can improve on to shore up holes in his game.... Just dont expect him to suddenly put up superstar PG stats anytime soon if ever.

 

I'm with you too....I think you should never build around a PG. If your best player is your small guy.....it's going to be that much harder for you. It's been done in the past with the likes of I. Thomas but it's very tough.

 

The all time assists and steals leader is overrated...

 

NBA Stats: Player Tracking Data

Team PPG on Drives (Team Points Per Game on Drives): the number of points a team has accumulated on drives to the basket by this player per game

1. Jeremy Lin (HOU)
2. Russell Westbrook (OKC)
3. Monta Ellis (DAL)
4. Kyle Lowry (TOR)
5. Ty Lawson (DEN)
6. Goran Dragic (PHX)

see more here: http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingDrives.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=DTP&sortOrder=DES