Could Motiejunas and Jones both move out of the rotation?

Worst contract in hte league?????

not hardly.

Derrick would break out here.

 

Well get him some clearasil and send his butt back to Minny.

DD

 

Exactly,he really has a great upside. There is no telling whether he will get there or not, but with the good contract he is on I would think that you have to keep him.

 

there is NOTHING that tells me he is destined to breakout in any way. This isn't a rookie or a player that has been benched in a bad situation. This is a guy who has played over 3300 quality NBA minutes under one of the best NBA coaches in the league with a staff that we saw firsthand develop some very good young role players with the Rockets.

If this guy can't "break out" under one of the best coaches in the league on a team that had an extremely depleted roster last year, with such a consistent dose of minutes given to a young player, what in the world makes anyone think he's going to break out with a much deeper team that has other, more effective, options to go to with either going big or small instead of right sized???

Contract wise- Its surely not the worst in the league, but realize he is making 5 million this year, 6.3 million next (team option already picked up), and if the Rockets want to keep him long term, the qualifying offer for 2015/16 is a whopping 8 million which he should gladly except. The Rockets would most likely have to move one of Asik or Lin to get him. They could give up their 3 young PF's in the deal but would have to take 2 other contracts from Minny, and that would include some of their young talent which they aren't just going to want to give up for nothing.

Keep in mind that I've said before his closest comparison athletically, statistically, etc. is Matt Barnes without the defense. He's also very similar athletically and statistically to his teammate Dante Cunningham who despite not being as good of a scorer, contributes statistically much more overall, and actually has a higher win-share and is someone Adelman usually prefers to go with instead of Williams late in games due to his defense which is better than Williams. You think I'm lying... go look up his stats on Basketballreference.com.

Take into consideration what Barnes makes at the vet min, and Cunningham makes at just 2 million a year, and yes Derrick Williams is very much overpaid, and his contract will NOT be an asset that is easily moved if they needed him to be included in a trade package. While its not Amare or Bargnani bad, at his level (10 to 15 min per game young PF) , its an albatross of a contract for what you get in return vs. what other players can give you for much, much less.

 

He's not even in Minnesota's rotation. He's just "collectin' dem checks" now.

 

Why would you say there is nothing that says Derrick is destined to break out but to say and believe that there is a reason that DMo is going to break out?



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Do you understand the dynamic in Minnesota?

Let me explain it for you. Kahn drafted Derrick Williams when Adelman already had Love whom he loved and Adelman wanted a shooting guard.

Adelman has treated Williams like a red-headed stepchild ever since. But Williams has made marked improvement anyways. He has a superior stroke to DMo and TJones to begin with. And he has improved his 3-point shooting. A skill we highly need in this offense. And he eschews the midrange jumper, preferring to shoot the 3 or get to the rim and throw it down. That's our style of player. Except he's got more defensive potential on 4's than Casspi.

Look, I'm not interested in trying to sell you on him. But here's the facts. DMo/TJones/GSmith are not in the rotation. They can't even get minutes at all. So, why not move them if we can get value for them. We get Derrick and all of a sudden Casspi has some legit competition at the 4 spot for minutes. If Derrick did get minutes here it's more than what DMo/TJones are doing. And then Derrick's trade value improves. DMo and TJones' trade value won't improve sitting the bench here.

 

Proof that some people are just abyssal judges of basketball talent.

 

Who said anything about D-Mo breaking out? D-Mo, Jones, and Smith have holes in their game that should be able to be improved enough to be capable long term NBA rotational players. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.

I look at Williams the very same way, but the fact is, I just don't see him taking his game to the next level because there are 3300 minutes of evidence that tells me he isn't going to be elite at least offensively to justify paying him 19 million dollars over the next 3 years, potentially having to move out huge pieces to get him, and stifling Morey's ability to make deals further beyond.

I think Williams can be a solid player, just not the franchise altering one that you are banking on when you trade and invest in him as a part of your core moving forward. Add to that the fact that his holes in his game could lead him in the exact same spot that D-Mo, Jones, and Smith are in now... out of the immediate rotation.

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Absolutely. One of my favorite league pass teams over the past couple of years. Adelman simply doesn't trust him for whatever reason and plays other guys over him when it matters.

Now maybe Rick the Ruler is unjustified in his actions, but what it does tell me is that as I've seen Adelman and McHale to be very similar in their rotations as far as playing the guys they trust over the higher upside guy... Williams is likely to fall in the same situation here in Houston as he is in Minnesota. I personally think that McHale would go with small ball primarily over playing Williams at the 4.

D-Mo/Jones/Smith aren't in the rotation currently(only 1 game into the season), but that doesn't mean they never will be for the rest of the season. Go look up how many times the lineup changed just last year with near PERFECT health. If game 1 is any indication, this team is going to be forced into giving minutes to someone outside the current nine man rotation.

Again Williams has about the same chance at rotation minutes here in Houston as any of the other 3 young PF's and has an albatross contract... how in the world is his value going to increase any more than if JUST ONE of these guys we already have on great contracts get playing time, and improve????

Even if Williams did improve to say... Matt Barnes level.... how is that going to help the Rockets with trade assets??... Unless he's a future or current all-star caliber player on that contract, he's still a negative in the trade value category.... so just forget trading for Williams to collect a trade asset... if he was that great to begin with, the T-Wolves would have dumped him in a heartbeat.

Ok... I think we are about done with the D-Williams trade talk. Lets just worry about how D-Mo/Jones/Smith can save us the merry-go-round discussion and improve on rounding out their games to contribute.

 

You can't come up with the solution on how to improve their games.

 

It's pretty simple, solid playing time. That's it.

 

I actually dont know why everyone is so harsh on them just for not being in the opening day rotation. People are forgetting here that the only reasons why they aren't in the rotation now is because of POSITIVE surprises which are Asik & Howard showing early signs of being able to play well together, and Casspi... man has he been a blessing from up above in preseason.

I saw a ton of improvement from D-Mo and Jones (Smith no so much because of injury).

-With Jones, its just about being consistent with mentally executing on defense and making the right play... not just the flashy play. His defensive rotations were bad at times, but his biggest thing is being in the right place offensively to get a high percentage shot, or to improve his outside shooting to be more consistent. He doesn't need to be a great 3 point shooter.... he just needs to be better about only taking good shots for now, and moving the ball.

-With D-Mo, its more of the same. Very basic 2nd year player plays. Mental lapses on both ends, and being more efficient with his shooting. Again... they dont HAVE TO be great 3 point shooters to be more efficient shooters. Its about knowing when to take the shot, and when to move the ball.

I loved the improvement I saw with D-Mo on the defensive end at times, and it gave me some hope that he can be effective either starting at the 4 or backing up at the 5. He's still got lower body strength to work on, but the bulk he added this off-season is a good start.

I liked that he's really learned how to use his size now to plug up the holes in the driving lanes. He doesn't have to block shots like Dwight, he just needs to use his size to plug up the holes. Playing with Aaron Brooks who often has a hard time at keeping his man out of the paint really showed me that D-Mo has improved drastically on his team defense even though there is still work to be done.

So I can nit-pick a lot about things they need to work on, but most of it comes down to mentally knowing the game better and getting a better feel for what the coaches need to win games. Also when nit-picking I can't help but look at the things they actually DID improve on, and very positive signs I've seen throughout preseason.

If making the starting lineup on day 1 on a contending team is the measuring stick for success that we hold for every single second year player in the league than we have problems here.

 

Truly abysmal understanding of who this team is and what they are playing for.

 

We're not playing games here to develop players. We're playing games to win the most games in the West and get home court advantage in the playoffs.

 

Yeah, but I wish they'd play games to win a championship. (easy rhetoric is easy)

 

Derrick Williams is a glorified Marcus Morris for now. Yes I said it... and he might not even be that good of a 3 point shooter. (I did not follow that so feel free to correct me on this.)
He does not play either position well enough.

 

Tell that to the GM. He does not value PF more than C and the PG spot obviously. He drafts tons of them but he releases them mostly in their 2nd or 3rd year.
You don't get a good veteran PF back if they do not break out in a way.

I understand we got Harden and Dwight but now it's the time to get a PF!

 

Derrick Williams is about a 30% 3 point shooter, Morris is a 34% 3 point shooter so you are right.

 

I think based on the fact that the GM has already picked up next year's options on DMo and Jones shows that they plan on developing those guys to be that PF.

 

Derrick Williams size is in no mans zone. Too short to play PF and too slow to play SF. He's good player, but lack of physical tools is what limits him. I would take our current PF over him any day...

 

I tell you why.... Derrick might have improved his shooting but he is still 6'8 and we need a guy who is at least 6'10 or 6'9 PF sized and that can shoot the midrange about 40+% and 3s at 37+%.

We need veteran players and not some guy who is minimally better.
We still have to develop Derrick..... I don't see it. Just pay some guy like Monroe or Millsap their 8 to 9 million.