No, but that is the point. The folks killed on 9/11 did not support killing people in the Middle East either. The whole thing is a massive cluster **** and because of governments and a few extremists on both sides of the issue, innocent people are dying. If Mathloom wants to have a discussion, this is not the way to do it. This isn't any better than Israelies showing victims of bombings and blaming Islam. I completely understand that people in the Middle East have anger at the United States. A foreign entity is entering their homes, searching for an enemy and their is collateral damage where innocent people are killed. If it happened here people would be outraged. However, I also understand that if you lost a loved one to a Muslim extremeist you are equally angry. It has been widely reported that innocents are being killed in the Middle East. It is on American news, debated on television, on the internet, etc. There is not a lack of information...... but how about a solution? A solution that the USA is willing to live with.... because, lets me honest, it isn't ending unless the USA decides it isn't worth it to continue.
Has there ever been a hegemon in the history of human civilization that didn't abuse its power for the safety of its own well being? My question to you Mathloom, if the hegemony roles were reversed and a Muslim nation was the hegemon, would it not have any civilian blood on its hands? In fact, the U.S. has shown much more restraint than any previous hegemon in at least recent history. I guess my point is... It is what it is. Don't act like the U.S. acts any differently than any other prior hegemon in history.
It is a reasonable question to ask but one that doesn't have a simplistic answer. As even the OP admits the Taliban are bad people and if that is the case what should be done about them? Should they just be left in power in the tribal reasons of Pakistan where they can bring more misery to the people there while continuing to destabilize the region? I can fully understand the anger that drone strikes bring but consider the alternative of using special forces would the people there be happier with US commandos flying in the middle of the night to invade their houses and snatch people? I don't really see any good solutions. War is never going to be clean and as bad as the drone strikes are there aren't other alternatives that are going to be much better. A few things I think could improve things are tightening up the rules of engagement for drone strikes and also providing for judicial review of the use of drones. Those would help but drone strikes are pretty much part of our reality now and will likely never go away.
The US certainly doesn't and there is a very solid argument that the US is even more careful than previous great powers. If you compare what the US is doing in Afghanistan versus what the Soviets did in terms of brutality it's not even close. I have no problem with saying that the US should be held to a higher standard at the same time though that needs to be balanced with reality. Many seem to have this idea that if only the US were to just pull out of everywhere then things would be good. There is little evidence to indicate that is the case. While I personally think a reduction in the US hegemony would be good in the long term a rapid withdraw without corresponding changes in geo politics would be disastrous.
Good post. Again, I think the USA should not be free from criticism - at all. But to answer your question - even within Muslim countries, the hegemon in this country usually has lots of civilian blood (mostly of other Muslims) on his hands. E.g., Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc. etc.
The big issue we should be talking about is why we are even involved??! So let me get this straight...we send drones in to kill people suspected of plotting against the US. Those people are plotting against the US because of our drones and continued interference in their countries. Its like Groundhog day. If we are simply rational we will understand that most these religious nutjobs on all sides are simply irrational people. We should be respected as a nation by our products and services that flow global currency to the US and provide a higher quality standard of living. Whether its Pakistan, Israel, Somalia and/or Zimbabwe we don't need to be involved. Even Iran wants to sell us their oil, we just don't let them, the supply of money to sell their resources will happen despite the rhetoric, just as we're not going to be held hostage by Columbia to get our Expresso fix. If anything its counter productive to American wealth and power as we disenfranchise businesses from going to the regions because of Anti-Americanism. Even Reagan knew to stay the hell out of the middle east. So now we're just fanning the flames of more of this cycle of nonsense. If you sting us we will squash you like a bug, but we don't need to waste time money and financial opportunities in these regions by these types of actions. Imagine if you were sitting at home in Houston and your mom got killed by a Pakistani drone. How would you feel about that country? We need to extricate ourselves from these foreign affairs and the military should only be used for defending our lands and our interests.
Some of you guys need to understand the danger of being on either extreme. Its a vicious cycle. Taking the Neocon POV: "THEY HATE OURZ FREEDOMZ!" is equally as stupid as "Why is America always so unfair?" Regardless of how you try to spin it though, innocent people do die, and the remaining people do grow up with an angry sentiment that is used as a tool by religious fanatics. Someone kills your family while you're eating dinner, you're not just going to let that go. We didn't, after we got attacked on 9/11. So whats the solution ? I don't know. There is no easy solution. There is always going to be collateral damage and innocent lives lost. Its a sad and harsh reality. We had to attack Afghanistan because quite frankly, the taliban deserve to be eradicated from existence. Where we make our mistake though, is treating these people like savages that act out of rage for no reason. We turn a blind eye to the culture and people of the area. Neglect the importance of education and the devastating effect that ignorance has. Winning the hearts of the people is the only way to win this war, but like I said, I don't know of a way to do that effectively.
He's an arrogant, crap poster that criticizes the US from both sides of the same coin. The fact is if you want to hold someone responsible for the violence, lawlessness, and ****ed up nature of Pakistan then look at the Pakistanis. It's perfectly fine to criticize US policy but it's lame to quote children in what amounts to war in a Wild West region of Pakistan. There's a quite valid reason for drones to be flying around that area and innocent people die in the most well meaning of wars. These Taliban, they're not freedom fighters or insurgents or defending something from foreign occupation, they're just backwards ass freaking killers. Killers that are embraced by Pakistan.
I agree with what you said but the whole part about drone attacks are completely ok is not valid. Don't think they kill far more civilians than insurgents? What is their method of identifying these insurgents to the point an attack is authorized? It's also not an effective method to combat terrorism. For every drone attack, you're probably increasing recruitment into their ranks more than killing them off.
I said there was a valid reason for it, I didn't say they were completely okay. Second, I'm sure there is a methodology for it that attempts to limit accidents and mistaken identities. Third, you'll have to show me evidence that drone attacks increases recruitment that wouldn't happen anyway with the kind of poverty, lack of education, and religious fundamentalism that exists in Pakistan. Pakistan has all the ingredients to generate hordes of looney killers whether we fly drones or not.
First of all nobody answered the original question as to why we killed the kid's father. Second, oh using kids for propaganda. OMG Not fair. Think of all the kids or for that matter the "Iraqi taking kids off of incubator lie" used by Bush I to push into Iraq War I. For that matter think of all the fetus parts used by conservatives throughout the years to get people to vote against food stamps or taxes for the .1%.
