Jeremy Lin and Beverley, who fits better with the team and James Harden

Sure, but when you look at how the lineup/team does offensively, Beverley does better in that too. OP does weird things like talking about when Harden got injured but using random dates to guess when that was instead of using the real dates. Talking about how Beverley fits in the starting lineup while looking at his data with the bench. On top of that, he's just looking at FG% like turnovers, free throws, etc don't matter on offense. When Durvasa did his filters, it showed an improvement in offense with Beverley. So it's not even just about him ignoring that the team does better defensively. A lot of the data is done in a strange way that distances it from the actual conclusion he tries to reach, in my opinion.

All that being said, it sparked interesting discussion. Not trying to be an ******* when the OP obviously put sizable effort into his posts and meant this to be a serious thread. It's a good thread even if I think there are some faults.

 

Yep, you're right. I was being lazy. (Sunday) This is not the proper way to adjust for pace. Just trying to make the point, in a quick and dirty way, that efficiency is not the whole story. =

Keep in mind too, the fact that the Rockets play with pace with Lin means that the other team is getting more possessions too, so although the points scored total (with Bev/with Lin) might be the same... the total impact is not. Bev has a better impact ... if you just look at those short times he was with the starters, as compared to Jeremy over the longer times he was with the starters

No agenda, I would have posted whatever I found out.

Was a little casual with the calculations probably because I think the numbers are not greatly predictive.

 

I mean... what he says is 100% factual. You analyzed offense -- and I do agree with you about the fact that you were totally upfront about the fact that you only analyzed offense -- and then used that analysis to conclude that Jeremy is a better fit with the team and should start. And of course all of the Jeremy fans co-signed the analysis, which I fully expected and understand.

All people are saying is that it's disingenuous to reach the above conclusion when you have only analyzed one prong of a two-pronged game. Either way, I appreciate your effort (and that of everyone else who crunches numbers around here)... I'm too lazy to do that kind of thing myself, and I enjoy reading what you guys come up with.

 

The other thing to remember is Patrick Beverley played only about half a season at about 18 minutes a game in his defensive ball-hawk role. He was MUCH fresher than anyone else when he started with the rockets.

Shouldn't we wait until he gets a full season at about 20-25 minutes a game to see if he can keep up his impact for a full season before declaring him a starter and giving him full starter minutes? Especially since the style he plays is so energy intensive?

 

No need to be so sensitive.

I'm just saying that if you are aware of the glaring limitations in your analysis, then you should probably address that in the beginning, instead of making conclusions to the question of "who fits better".

Otherwise, that's how people are misled.

 

He who sets foot in the Lin/Bev bear trap is liable to have to gnaw his foot off to escape. Only way to survive is to be able to prove you are using SportVU data to reach your conclusions.

Now, as it happens the Rockets have access to that very data. We could always wait and see what they do...

 

Well feel free to ignore half of the game of basketball but most of us realize the importance of defense.

 

I don't get why people are attacking TTNN. He provided some good information for getting a more stats-oriented discussion going and looks to be receptive to considering other points of view, which personally I appreciate. Its difficult to fit in numbers from every perspective and every angle into a single post.

 

Great post. Hating mob hold themselves to an extremely low standard and hold others to an extremely high one. How about providing their own stats and analyses instead of criticizing others and whining?

 

For those who are still debating who should start at PG, please read today's comment from McHale -

"One other note, McHale said he plans to start Jeremy Lin at point guard but wants to see more of him and Patrick Beverley on the floor at the same time."

Source: http://www.csnhouston.com/basketball...bcs&ocid=yahoo


This should end all speculation for now!

 

Your very first post.

Here are your conclusions after your huge essay.

I don't know how you can speak any louder that you wish Lin to start. You practically screamed that Beverley starting will cost the team.

But you did it without looking at defense. Without looking at defense, I can make the claim that Greg Smith is just as good Asik as a player. Obviously, I'm sure the difference between Lin and Beverley is much close than that. So wouldn't it be great if you actually analyzed defense too? So you wouldn't have to put up with all these posts poking holes into your conclusions?

 

If he really said that, then it should be its own thread...

 

NOWHERE in your first posts did you have conclusions with the caveat of "on offense".

You did not say "Beverley fit better with Harden at the cost of the team on offense."
You said "Beverley fit better with Harden at the cost of the team."

Limited research should yield limited conclusions. If you analyze shooting, then you should put a disclaimer that your research can only yield shooting-related results, not steals, rebounds, etc. If you analyze offense, then your findings should all have the caveat of disclaiming it's only offense.

 

I think he was referring to the game, not the season.

 

Anything on here that's Lin related gets (for a lack of a better word) attacked... that happens when you get too many threads dedicated to a single player... just nature...

This is an excellent post by the OP but I can't help but cringe everytime I see a LIN thread because I know whats coming...



Had to give props to the OP for the well researched post... but I do take it with a grain of salt... stats, if is well presented like this, are not meant to be debated... you just take it, and check if it translates on the court...

 

So if I make the same comparison between Greg Smith and Omer Asik on offense, and come to the conclusion that "Smith is just as good as Asik", what would your response be?