Jeremy Lin and Beverley, who fits better with the team and James Harden

Oh my god... I think we're all up to here with the Lin fans flooding this board with their opinions.

 

this is a Rockets forum though, not a random sports forum

 

Yet you choose one players name as your handle. hmmm. pot meet kettle

 

At least the thread has analytical support, you can argue the numbers but why bring in the person bringing forth the numbers. Is it because you can't understand the numbers? therefore having to resort to attacking the messenger? Lin fans and Howard fans and Harden fans , etc are going to flood the forum. Deal with it or not, up to you. Complaining aint stopping the flow anytime soon. Lament the good ole days all you want but times are a changin.

 

You guys are this close to ruining TTNN's post, can you please NOT?

Mother of God, both sides are so annoying.

-The cranky old vets hitting menopause who gain some sort of self-worth by reminding everyone of their pre-Lin join date. Why can't you set the example by either not taking the bait or instigating more crap? You can also report rude overzealous behavior which Im sure the mod crew will take care of.
You joining in to the mess and going full potato just stirs up the pot more.

-My fellow Lin fans that act like the team should be built around him and if not he should request a trade to the Miami Heat, where Lebron should, of course, let Jeremy have the ball otherwise his stats won't look pretty. Listen, Im not Asian but being hispanic, I can understand why watching one of your own succeed feels so important.
But can you see how your Jeremy-centric enthusiasm can be a bit overwhelming for true Rockets fans that have been here years? I mean...you gotta be aware of it.

When things start going off topic, Mod Crew should really move the nonsense to some "subforum of shame" cuz this is spreading to literally every post
/rant

That said, TTNN your post is great. Finally some to the point charts I understand

 

Like you, I wasn't born in TX, and I don't live in TX now. Unlike you, I like the Rox more than any other team in all of sports. And, unlike you, I and many posters here will remember Patrick Beverley 5-10 years from now, just like we remember Moochie Norris, Bobby Sura, etc.

This board is called "Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves." "Houston Rockets" means a team, and "Roster" signifies fifteen players. Sure, Clutch seems to let just about everyone participate here. But the most appropriate posts consider the team and the roster, if only implicitly.

The board really seems to have got worse since Lin got here. There's no "ONLY LIKES ONE PLAYER" flag on posts: you have to read through a post to find out where the poster is coming from. This thread alone has over 100 posts. Reading them takes time, and when a lot of them come from part-time fans, the experience gets worse.

I notice I seem to spend a lot more time trying to zap bad posts now, as if I could clean up the board and restore it to how it used to be. But I can't. And I do feel the board is worse since LOF's got here. The only solution is either to quit the board, which I don't want to do, or start assembling a long "Ignore" list, which is what I have undertaken.

I'm interested to see if you have a response, so I'll wait, but it's perfectly fine with me if we just choose to put each other on "ignore." And it's not a strike at you: I encourage you to do the same to me if you like. I just want to improve my experience of the board somehow. And maybe you will enjoy the board more if you ignore non-LOF's like me.

 

What? I wasn't even referring to the OP however his numbers don't mean what he thinks they mean. He's isolating the performance of one player on another without any measure for the other players on the floor or measuring defense at all. Other than that it was good work I suppose.

I definitely lament the days when people posting here were actual Rockets fans and not the basketball version of Justin Bieber fanatics.

 

I wouldn't disparage the OP here at all. He was merely using stats to analyze the validity of the "Bev is better fit with Harden so he should start" theory or the "stagger Lin and Harden" theory. Those are 2 pretty popular ongoing topics. His stats do seem to provide evidence that Harden has to work harder without Lin which would seem to make "basketball" sense. General concensus is that Lin is a better playmaker than Bev. The overall effect on the team, however, is arguable.

 

it actually proved Harden's FG% dropped after he was injured

 

The numbers did show Harden's usage rate was significantly higher playing with Beverley than with Lin. That's not disputable and has nothing to do with anybody's injury. In fact, it might even point to a damning phenomenon that Harden had to work harder even when he was injured because they played Beverley more.

A lot of good counter arguments against the OP's analysis. But at least it was a well researched and well thought out post and has generated some meaningful discussions.

 

when was Harden injured and when did Beverly start playing significant minutes?

 

OP, you're contradicting yourself here. Harden injured himself around the all star game, which was mid February. You admit most of the minutes from your analysis of Beverley happened after Feb.

So you're admitting a bulk of Beverley's minutes happened after Harden was injured in the second half of the season. So how is it the same in both cases?

 

A better fit for the starting unit isn't measured by one player. Second, fit includes defense. Third, how can you assume the difference in offense is solely attributable to Lin and Beverly? What about the other three players on the floor? They have a significant bearing on stats and fit.

And I don't care who starts. I'm for whatever is best for the team. The fact that there are people so upset that Lin may come off the bench is nuts.

 

Sure, but isn't that more of a discussion of the past now that:

1) We have Dwight: Sure, when he and Lin were the only shot creators, he needed that outlet where he could take breaks when he was exhausted. This isn't the case anymore. Harden and Lin controlled most of the possessions last year. This year, it'll be Harden and Dwight controlling most of the possessions. So whether the numbers are reliable or not, this fact changes the entire nature of the argument and conclusion, does it not?

2) The fact that Harden isn't perpetually injured? You said he has a higher usage rate with Beverley and that he was forced to do more even injured. Sure, this is a bad thing when he's injured. But lets introduce the case in which he's not injured and has a higher usage rate. The minutes he played with Toney Douglas he had a higher usage rate plus significant improvements in his numbers. So yeah, if he's injured and asked to do more, naturally that's going to hurt him and cause him to perform below average. If he's not injured and asked to do more, that just gives him more opportunities and actually helps his numbers. Since he's not perpetually injured, I don't see why we should construct our starting lineup under the assumption that he'll be injured?

 

Does that also mean Lin's stats at the beginning of the season should be thrown out?

 

So when you see a thread that has "Lin" in the title...
1. I know 90% Rocket fans would click.
2. I know 100% clutch crew would click.
3. I know 150% Lin fans would click.
4. I know 200% trolls would click.

We all know what's gonna happen and who's gonna show up in these threads, I bet in the next thread topic with "Lin" in it, I can predict which poster says what!

 

I personally applaud kumakun for admitting that he doesn't give a damn about the Rockets and only cares about Jeremy -- it's what a lot of the guys who post here feel but will never admit, and I respect the transparency. Not even being sarcastic... I really do. Be up front in your bias. *shrug*