Official 2013 Budget/Debt Limit/Obamacare Crisis Thread

Do understand how the US government works. The president doesn't vote on the budget. Congress makes the budget and now they are refusing the government the ability to pay for the budget they voted on.

 

I guess I need to decide early tomorrow if I am selling my stocks or not. Uhhgggh

 

Looks like Boehner is conceding that this was a fool's errand and will help facilitate quick passage of the Senate Bill that will be unveiled in the morning. Each time he does this show of force and inevitable cave, he weakens his own Speakership. Say what you want about Pelosi, but she knows how to lead her own party.

This mess likely ensured a whole bunch of GOPers being primaried, making it much more likely that the Dems hold the Senate and make more gains in the House in 2014 with the benefit of running against crazy people.

 

And exactly what is the crisis that would cause the US to default?

 

Congressional incompetence.

 

Thanks Obama

 

It's called a legacy. His legacy looks like debt, default, and a disaster we call Obamacare.

 

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Will you respond to these comments regarding your post, bobmarley?

There is an astonishing weakness among ordinary Americans in their inability to grasp macroeconomics, US government (checks and balances, how much power each figure truly has), and how personal finance accounting for a simple family doesn't apply to the world's foremost economic power and a country of ~315 million.

You're not the only doing this. This thread and the D&D since 2008 have been filled with similar comments and misinformation. It's only a recent example thus my question.

 

He's a true American

 

This "crisis" is the direct result of Republican political strategy. There has always been a level of hardball played in Congress going back to the original 13 colonies. Texas's own Sam Rayburn along with Lyndon Johnson were certainly masters of it. But what has changed is any semblance of personal integrity and truly held values.

Though Nixon was known for dirty tricks in the elections of the 70's the real turning point was somewhere about the 1980 with Lee Atwater who developed a never before unseen tactic of remorseless slander, ruthless innuendo and dirty tricks that seemed to write the book for the future of republican campaigns. Atwater was also the originator of the new "Southern Strategy" of exploiting social issues to conservative religious groups to align them with the plutocrats into a dominant voting block. It's interesting to note that lat in his life after a traumatic illness, Atwater recanted his ways and understood what evil he had wrought. But it was too late, the path to power by any means was set for the GOP and the mantle picked up by Karl Rove.

 

I think the legacy will be more likely to note that he battled against Republicans who shut the govt. down, and tried to hold the nation hostage over a law that they could never gain the support to overturn. Obama's legacy will be that he didn't back down to those who wanted to default the nation in an effort to accomplish what they could never do during the standard legislative process.

 

Sorry Blade, that requires nuance and critical thinking. An aptitude sorely lacking from our conservative brothers.

 

LOL. Good point -- I too thought that was impossible.

They've also managed to fire up more than their own base. They've fired up the Democrats base and even a slew of moderates. I for one had pledged to never donate to political campaigns again, but I will break that pledge in 2014. I simply view the radical right as completely unhinged, illogical and dangerous. They have to be fought by all thinking Americans.

Without all this nonsense and manufactured crises from them? Yeah, I would stay on the sideline and complain about my democrats. But good lord, when you make McCain, Reid and even McConnell look like super-geniuses of logic, you have really, really accomplished something incredible.

 

But if GOP drop the nuts wing of the party, they might not control any chamber of congress and the white house for decades.

 

So basically it's worth it to default over medical device tax and subsidies for congress' Heath care?

Ah that makes sense!

 

I thought it was pretty apparent when they said "common sense reforms," weren't you listening?

 

I think his legacy will be that by being thoroughly moderate Milly, but black, he caused about half of the GOP to go batsh** crazy and discredit themselves for a generation to all but their aging white mainly southern base.

He will be viewed as a transitional figure before the next progressive president and the pendulum switched back against the anti-government, trickle down, crowd toward more equality and hence opportunity for most folks.

 

1. The main theme in the history on Obama will be about the Republican strategy to oppose everything he does. History is written by well-educated and critically-thinking professional historians, not yokels.

2. This is a Judgement of Solomon moment, but there's no King Solomon around to make the judgement. Just a sword about to cut the baby in two. The true mother loses whether she yields or not.

3. Nonstarter, I know, but I'd like a proportional representation system for the House. Not a full-blown parliamentary system with coalition governments, etc, just PR in the House and everything else the same. You'd still have crazies getting elected, but they'd no longer vote in a bloc like this.

4. When this is over, I actually would like Obama to pass a balanced budget. I think it's time to do that, since we seem to really be recovering from the recession (assuming the debt ceiling thing doesn't knock us down again). But, removing the debt ceiling entirely should be part of that.

 

The Tea Party is probably actually underrepresented in both the House and Senate, because it's hard to get crazy people elected. There are a handful of Senators and 30-40 House GOPers driving all this. The rest of the GOP seems unhappy and/or angry - but I can't figure out why they go along with it. It would be fairly easy to ignore these people. I suspect that might be the philosophy going forward given how disastrous this has been for the GOP.

 

Chris in a vacuum no, it isn't, but caving here would send a message that the debt ceiling is a negotiating point in the legislative process.

It simply is not. The US cannot operate from crisis to crisis and allow a radical minority that much power, especially with citizen united rulings where foreign interest could develop that minority.

The debt ceiling is a formality.