University Of Texas Conservative Students Hold Affirmative Action Bake Sale

What are you basing this observation on? As far as I can tell, the quality of life metrics between the two groups are about the same. I've spent most of my life in the South too and it seems equally *****ty to be poor white or black. What exactly does racial segregation have to with it if their poverty levels are the same? Poor whites are as segregated as poor blacks, and it's not like they have more access to better schools

 

Show me data showing that racism towards Asians has a material effect on Asian achievement. AA isn't here to stop people from making fun of you.

I just explained why it's consistent.

 

You are so incredibly ignorant about every other group in this nation it's not even funny. Your brain has basically been so indoctrinated into this "racism and social disadvantages only affect blacks" idea that you just can't process anything else.

A shiny example of why the way AA works right now is so flawed.

 

Mkay kid. I'm just going to put you on ignore now. Thanks.

 

Did you not see my post with statistics about how because Asians are seeing as super human study and test takers that the actual academic achievements are discounted against?


That said, I will go ahead and said that I support Affirmative Action. I think we need more, not less of it and that the there are probably more barriers for Blacks and some hispanics than Asians. But please, don't belittle the struggles of one minority just to prop another up.

 

This is a good point. I posted the med school stats for groups a couple of pages back. There is no reason for a disparity like that in a profession where your competence should be the deciding factor.

 

I grew up in a Texas school system near a black neighborhood. I saw some Asian kids get bullied though I never was, and I can say it influences you. It still influences people I know. It's weird that I went to a college without AA but still got a diverse perspective with the people I met and knowing their stories. In a sense, that anecdote of my childhood is a big reason why people want to segregate, but kids are kids. They notice differences and exploit it with whatever means possible. Sometimes the kids are also proxies of what's happening at home.

If I were pursuing my own interests or held some cultural interest in advancing only Asian Americans, then as an Asian, I wouldn't want Affirmative Action. As others have mentioned, Asians are the most handicapped and penalized racial category in college admissions.

A diverse campus in perspective elevates everyone with the ideas and experiences shared. While I support Affirmative Action as it is since many colleges still put equal or lesser weight on "legacy status" where the parent or relative attended that same college, I would rather have class based desegregation than race based. That way the field is larger and quality doesn't have to be set to a limited sample size.

AA in the workplace has gone a long way of making Americans more tolerant of each other. It factors into politically blue areas being mid-large cities, while smaller towns are red and mostly homogenous. That isn't the only distinction in the red-blue divide by far, but it contributes to one of the main hotbed issues we're still dealing with today.

Look at that compared to some places in Europe, like Germany, where assimilation isn't rapid and 2nd generation immigrants still predominantly speak their parent's native language, and you say that things could be far worse off.

 

I didn't read it but I just did. So the material effect of racism on Asians is that they're underrepresented at Harvard?

I haven't belittled any struggles. I said racism didn't affect Asian achievement in the same ways it's affected others. If anything that's a compliment.

 

No the material effect is that the model minority image means that harder work and better results nets less reward compare to every one else. Keep in mind, despite the academic success and large representation in "middle class" relative to it's population, Asian's actual level of representation in higher levels of politics, business and entertainment is very low. Think about why that is the case, what stereotype/racial barriers could have contributed to that?

If you don't think working harder, getting better results and netting lower rewards (whether it's getting into a school that you out qualify a lot of others that got accepted, getting elected to political office, a promotion to senior executive position or getting a better role in a film) doesn't affect the Asian population, then I think we're just too far apart.

I've actually had some one told me (while I was a young H.S. kid) that if you're Asian and you want to survive a company layoff, you have to be twice as good as the others being laid off. Now, while I think some of that is either exaggerated or unique to that person's situation, I think that does show some Asians think that being Asian can affect achievement negatively.

 

Ugh...you really can't see past black and white, can you? Let me break it down for you.

Premises:
1. AA is meant to offset majority racism.
2. Asian-Americans face some degree of racism. How much or how little racism is (in your eyes) up for debate, even though it is ultimately irrelevant.

Logical conclusion:
Asian-Americans should benefit from AA in a manner commensurate with the degree of racism they, as a group, experience, whatever that means.

Reality:
Asian-Americans do not benefit at all from AA and, more than likely, are actually harmed by its policies.

Please do explain how this is logically consistent.

If you want to keep the current reality intact (i.e modern AA), then you can only dispute the premises. That means that either (a) AA is meant to offset majority racism only for certain groups of people or until such a time that a given minority group achieves economic parity with the majority or (b) Asian-Americans face zero racism in this country and in fact get "racial spoils" for being Asian.

 

If the problem is that prevalent and tangibly damaging then surely you have convincing data to back it up.

For example, you posted an article in which Asians complained of being denied entry into Harvard. Asian enrollment at Harvard is 17% and Asians are 5% of the US population. This is your example of material effects of racism? That only 17% of Harvard is Asian? Okay.

 

Thanks for breaking it down for me. Now you can present the data of material effects of racism on Asian achievement and how AA would help. Thanks.

 

You're looking at it wrong.

Instead of AA being argued as a net positive or even a net neutral for Asian Americans, the argument is that it's a net negative, sometimes more negative than white American males and females.

AA's intentions were to diversify the commons and also reduce racism and sexism by placing different races/sexes in positions of power. That clearly hasn't happened, which is why it still exists.

Yet Affirmative Action hasn't benefitted Asian Americans in cracking the political and corporate ceilings.

 

I don't think I'm looking at it wrong. They're saying AA hurts Asians and I said show me the data and now you're saying AA doesn't benefit Asians in areas they need it to achieve and I say show me the data.

I'm not sure why Asians seem to do better overall though. Everyone talks about it but I never see the concrete reasons for it. I'd be curious the income status of most Asian immigrants and how it relates to Hispanic immigrants or African immigrants. Asians get labeled the model minority but I'm curious how much of that is some great work ethic and culture and how much of that is it that it's the wealthier Asians that are the ones that can more often afford to move here legally unlike many illegal Latino immigrants that might just come across the border to escape poverty. I know in my experience, my Chinese and Japanese friends were wealthier and did better in school than my Vietnamese or Cambodian friends who tended to be poor. Don't know if that means anything or not.

 

Asians and Africans kids tend to do well in school because their parents know that education is the key to making it. Even coming from a poor and uneducated background.

Growing up, all I heard was "you go to school. you study hard. you go to college."

Right now, I help my son with his school work everyday. It amazes me how my siblings and I made it, because we had no help back then. My parents did not speak or read English, so we were on our own.

 

wrt school work, homework, class projects, etc...

 

I am not sure of if it applies to all Asians Americans(including immigrants), but a large portion of the Asian Americans believes that education is ultimate tool for success. That is definitely true for Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Indian Americans.

 

Because if it's based purely on MERITS, the percentage should be higher which means the efforts put into by Asians are resulting in less success than everyone else. It actually gets worse if you expand the numbers beyond college.

Also let's explore into the next level should we? If we think that getting into the best colleges would lead to career success, and that Asians will be viewed much favorably than other minorities, surely the much higher concentration of Asians in Universities and the large disparity of Asians vs. other minorities would equate to higher percentage of corporate leaders vs. other minorities right?

https://www.diversityinc.com/diversity-facts/wheres-the-diversity-in-fortune-500-ceos/

Well let's look at politicians on the national scale. Name a prominent Asian politician. Jindai and who else?

Let's talk about entertainment and sports? Name some mainstream Asian actors that was the lead in a major TV show or Movies this year.

How about sports, did Lin not get overlooked partially because he was Asian?

Once again to say that there isn't some disparity for Asians in America is just as ignorant as any one to say that other minorities group in the U.S. doesn't face unique challenges. I believe that they do and which is why (again) I support AA. But please don't just dismiss with such conviction that there isn't any bias against Asians. There are, it's not 100% prohibitive (just like it's not against any other minority groups) and can be overcome, but it's there.

That said, I do think a lot of Asians, because they don't see it as 100% prohibitive, tend to focus more inwardly in terms what could be done to improve their standard of living. This had lead to some social advances but I think it also causes Asians to "top out" faster. I also think Asians benefited tremendously from actions of other minority groups took to make sure we have equal treatment in the academic and professional world. Which is why if other minority and supporters of more "equality" start saying that Asians aren't treated disparately, then it's likely the advancement of Asians are mostly likely to fall behind everyone else in the U.S.

 

I would say there is some selection bias in terms of who gets here too. At least when you look at the type of Chinese that came to the U.S., to do it legally especially in the 80's and 90's (when China was really poor) meant that you have to both get accepted to a U.S. college from China AND get a scholarship so you can get by. I might not be exaggerating when say that you're probably looking at the top .01% of intellectual talent. So even when we were dirt poor (parents came with $35 in their pockets), they had the drive and the intelligence to get into a better financial situation.

And like Invisible Fan said, there is also some culture bias. I have relatives that were factory workers in China, but they made sure their kids studied like crazy and end up going to college in China.

 

Really? Just look at how underrepresented Asians are in Hollywood, politics/civic arena, professional sports, and corporate boardrooms. Look at the stuff LosPollos posted. In any event, the material effects are irrelevant. It doesn't matter how able they are to overcome it or how little it affects them; if AA is meant to be a policy that counters racism, then at the very least, it should not be indirectly harming Asians.

You are essentially arguing that there is a line for minorities, or perhaps all citizens of the US, that says "this high you shall rise but no higher," at least until every other racial group catches up with you.