ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Pacers 10/10/2013 in Manila, Philippines (PRESEASON)

THE ENTIRE TEAM CHEMISTRY IS IMPORTANT HERE. Not just Harden/Howard and Parson.

And when the season begins Lin still will be the Rockets starting PG.

 

Everybody feels demoted going from starter to backup. Especially giving up spots to inferior players. You make it a ‘Lin' issue, when you know it is the common train of thought in the NBA.

It's not the fans. Or just fans of Lin. The same happened with the Rockets PG situation over the last few years, same with PF, and Asik.

It's the same everywhere, and not a Lin issue. Not his endorsements, or popularity. It's the game of basketball.

Unless, you want to discuss the issue of demotion in light of Asik or the Rockets PG/PF situation over the last few years.

 

That's why you don't worry about Howard's strength in defense, and you worry about his weaker (relative) issue in his offense.

That's why you don't need to compound his strength in defense with Beverley (albeit Lin plays the position game better, and fits well with Howard on D as well), and you don't need to compound his weakness (relative) in offense with Beverley.

Yes, more games needs to be played.

But if last season can't tell you Lin is a better PnR passer, better facilitator, better at setting up an offense, and better at post passes than Beverley, all traits that says he's a better fit on offense than Beverley, then I'm not sure which world you lived on.

 

Absolutely! And Torocan never said those were his issues. It was facilitating, running PG, rim-assists etc.

 

Did you guys see how much more effective Lin was with the second unit? I saw flashes of Linsanity. He was the first option and actually able to play to his abilities. As a starter he's a fourth option and doesn't really do too much, that's why Beverley's more valuable for his defense as a starter.

Give me a break with all the "We need Lin to pass to Dwight", Lin isn't CP3, his passing isn't anything special. Beverley, Parsons and Harden are more than capable of getting the ball in to Dwight. Lin is a scorer, and he doesn't have much opportunity to score with the starters.

 

And when Harden plays more with Asik, he can get his numbers without being in two minds about keeping Howard happy vs getting his own shots. Asik doesn't care about shots.

 

Stop strawmaning, I never said Lin isn't a better offensive player than Beverley, in fact it's the primarily reason I think Lin should come off the bench.

Like I said, this assumes that Howard's effectiveness is maximized with Lin. So far there has been no evidence of that, mostly because we haven't had many trials, and a good reason why we should keep testing out different lineups for those who are sensitive about Lin being a 6th man.

Furthermore, Harden is also arguably the top PnR player in the league, so he would overlap with Jeremy Lin in that sense.

 

And I'm sure turning the CIO of Fidelity into a Senior Analyst because the CIO is actually a really good analysts and fits better in that role is not a demotion.

It only impacts salary, future employability, recognition, role ... oh, just about everything. And the new CIO didn't even have a better investment track record!

 

This is the 2nd time in recent memory that bbs members have had major meltdowns over a win, and both times revolved around the same player...

 

The hell are you talking about? Harden plays with Dwight so that the opposing team's defense has to worry about 2 superstar threats and can't afford to double. Lin can get his own shots with Asik, not with Harden and Dwight.

 

I didn't make it a Lin issue. Lin and his role on the team is the topic of discussion.

Again, a player can worry about perception, or worry about making a positive impact on the team with the role given by the coach. There's no rule that bench players must be regarded as "inferior". Our head coach made multiple all-star teams in seasons he wasn't starting.

 

The second unit today isn't the second unit you'll typically see. Howard, Harden, Parsons will all play 35 min plus, Asik 25min plus. So you won't see Lin play much without two of the above 4 players. He's not going to run around like the Knicks with guys who may not even be in our top 9 rotation as starters and playing 35 minutes or so together.

 

Omri Casspi provided some good performance in both this game and the previous game, show he can really shoot the ball, he displayed this spark he had in his first two years in the league all over again, the same spark which waned in Cleveland.

I am aware that in this particular game Casspi did scored most of his points in the garbage time, I know it was already obvious that Houston is going to win this game, but I don't think it matters, you have to show out in those games if you want to try and build yourself a reputation in your team, a reputation of a guy which comes off the bench and brings some new spirit and enthusiasm to the court, that's what Casspi did in the last two games and it was reflected in the way that Casspi scored most of his points in the last quarter, it was reflected in the fact that Casspi showed some hustle and grabbed pile of rebounds.

I really hope Casspi will present the same skills in the season itself and not just in the preseason, I really hope to get up every morning when I can't watch NBA games online and see that Casspi contributed to his team adequately, I don't see where Casspi can fail in Houston, it's his new home now, it also seems like he adapted and adjusted to this place real fast, if coach McHale will let Casspi fair chance to prove himself in this season I'm sure Casspi will meet with challenge and won't disappoint us.

 

Omer Asik did not get playing time. Was cussing to himself throughout the game and rushed out the hall right after. Expect him to get traded

 

Loved what I'm seeing from Casspi. Definitely a Morey type move picking him up when his stock was so low...he's still very young and showed a lot of potential his first 2 years. D-Mo also looked good. I think he would do better on the bench with more shot opportunities against the other teams reserves. I'm also warming up to the idea of playing Lin off the bench. He'll have more freedom and playmaking opportunities. Can't wait to the see the full bench mob when Garcia and Asik come back. Harden and Parsons as good we expect. Howard got in foul trouble but these preseason refs seem to be very whistle-happy.

 

You specifically only address Lin as a backup as a demotion, but no one else other than Manu and McHale (now) when you know that all the other players I mentioned, and most NBA players consider it a demotion.

And you make it a sponsorship/popularity issue.

It is a basketball issue.

No need to treat Lin like an outlier like Manu/McHale in order to conform him into the behaviour you expect of him (but not 90% of the NBA players).

 

Where did you get this from?

 

Response

Let me ask you this question: How long do you think Rockets will want to pay $8 Mill cap per year to a 6th man? Do you really think that even if Lin plays well as a 6th man coming off bench, i.e., Manu, Rockets will want to keep Lin permanently at this salary level? I feel that this will not last longer than a year, whether Lin excels as a 6th man.

 

How is it a basketball issue? Don't talk to me about "feelings". Explain, in terms of actual basketball, how Lin would be given a less important role.

 

Harden will play most of his minutes with Dwight as he'll play 38 and Dwight 35.

If there's minute staggering, it's better to stagger those two so we at least have one of our best two players on court at all times. And if there's some minutes when they don't play together, it makes more sense to have Lin pair with Dwight and Beverley pair with Harden than vice versa, for obviously reasons both offensively and defensively.

That's the point.

Harden and Dwight will play enough minutes together.

What's the benefit of Dwight + Harden if Harden does his own things anyway, and isn't that good at PnR passing to the roll man or post passes, and Howard isn't as good a PnR screener (before rolling away) as Asik.