ClutchFans Game Thread: Rockets @ Pacers 10/10/2013 in Manila, Philippines (PRESEASON)

Someone who watched the game:

Why did Lin have 5 fouls? ABZ also fouled out? What happened?

 

Just got called for a lot fouls. I think our perimeter guys are trying to be more aggressive defensively, and they need to learn how to do that without fouling.

 

Whether or not it is a "demotion" depends more on minutes than starting position. If Lin's minutes dropped significantly, there wouldn't really be any other way to view it. Whether it would be deserved or not is a separate question, as is whether it happens at all in the regular season.

 

That is somewhat of a good point. Harden may not even accept well to being the second fiddle to Dwight, who obviously has done more in his career than Harden so far.

And we've found out since then that the real reason for Harden leaving OKC is not the $1-2M/yr he'd have to give up to stay in OKC, but the chance to become the man and start.

While Lin's not the player Harden is, it's in some ways not hard to see it as a demotion. Although I'm sure if it happens, Lin will take it better than his fans. But Manu's done it, and Lin can do it also. So it's two sides. Some prefer not to (like Harden), some accepts it (like Manu). Like always, there's two sides to the story.

 

I have Uverse and when I went to work this morning, the game was blacked out. I noticed that it was going to be aired again at 1:30 so I recorded it. Can someone please tell me if the game is showing or did they black it out twice? Thanks in advance! I don't want to be all pumped about watching the game only to get home and discover that all I recorded was a black screen.

 

Do you consider Ginobili a lesser player because he came off the bench? Or, did he make San Antonio that much more dangerous?

 

Why did he only touch the ball in the post?

Actually PnRs aren't really set plays, at least for the Rockets. It's just playing basketball. You don't really even need a playbook for PnRs (at least the basic ones). We ran the PnRs to death last season, despite having the thinnest playbook by far in the NBA last year.

 

So McHale is basically saying the improved 2nd unit play was due to the D-Mo - Cassipi pairing, and not Lin vs Beverley.

Won't doubt Coach's eye-test. Not what everybody on Clutchfans saw though. I would have thought 98%+ of Clutchfans thought Lin looked great running the 2nd unit, and made everybody look better. Even the non-fans of Lin like Reeko_Htown said Lin looked good running the second unit.

But hey, that's why he's the coach, and not the 98% of us.

 

Yeah I have to say I find the lack of pick and rolls a little disturbing. Dwight is a good post player, but he is a great pick and roll player. Makes more sense to go to that, especially when matched up against Hibbert.

 

Also remember Manu do start plenty of games in his prime.

He started 79 games in 2010-2011, 74 games in 2004-2005, 56 games in 2005-2006. Other years he start about 30% of the games except when he didn't play a lot of games that season or his rookie year.

In Harden's case, his number of game start in his three years tenure at O-city are: 0, 5, 2.

So Manu is not a traditional 6th man like Harden's role at O-city. If we want to compare Lin's role to Manu, Lin should still get plenty of game starts.

 

I recall that everybody on Clutchfans was understanding of Lowry when he said he sees himself as the starter and wants to be the starter (when was playing behind Brooks), ditto for Dragic when he got a taste of starting, ditto for Lowry after Dragic took his spot, and ditto for Beverley, and ditto for pretty much every back-up player that wants to be a starter and every starter that doesn't want to lose his starting spot the the back-up (eg Patterson after losing his spot to MMorris, and TRob after losing his spot to DMo/Jones a few weeks after the trade).

But for Lin, it's "you shouldn't want to be the starter", "there's more privilege to putting up 16 and 6 off the bench than 14 and 6 as a starter." I mean, what the heck's the difference really, other than the 'starter' status, when you know Harden is going to play 38 minutes, Howard 35 minutes, Parsons 35 minutes, and those guys will have minutes somewhat staggered in a 'real' game (not today's 5 on 5 off rotation), so Lin's going to be probably 3rd offensive option whether he's on the bench or starting anyway. Are we really going to sub Howard, Harden and Parsons at the same time (unless it is a blowout) out of the game to let Lin run the 2nd team in its entirety?

Of course not.

So if you ask me, do I want to play more with Howard, Harden and Parsons, or Asik (who can't catch my passes), Garcia and Cassipi, for the most part, I'd choose Howard, Harden and Parsons.

I'd choose to start just for throwing at-rim passes and running PnRs with Dwight vs Asik. All day long. Love Asik. Prefer Dwight.

 

At least in the 3rd quarter, Harden and Dwight tried >= 2 times with no success.

 

It shouldn't be blacked out the second time.

I have Dish Network, and I'm watching the game right now... and Rockets games on NBA TV are blacked out for me.

So since I'm able to watch the second airing without it being blacked out, I'm sure you will be able to also.

 

It's only the second preseason game. They haven't even worked much on their pick and roll sets yet I'm sure.

 

Who he'd rather play with is another matter. I agree that he'd probably rather play with Dwight. I'm just saying that it shouldn't necessarily be considered a demotion.

 

Part of it though, was Dwight's fault. He doesn't screen that effectively. Many times he doesn't actually put a full body on the defending perimeter player, and cuts to the rim too quickly.

In terms of the PnR before rolling, Asik actually does a better job than Dwight.

But in general, Harden/Beverley ran a lot of perimeter-oriented plays with Howard on the floor, never really consciously trying to put Howard in position to receive a good post pass or PnR.

A lot of times they actually passed the ball away from the side Dwight was posting on, but there wasn't a conscious effort to re-post him on the other side like the Rockets did (or tried to do) with Yao.

Let's just say the passing to Dwight between the first and second games was a big drop off.

 

this!

 

You are comparing apples to oranges.

The Rockets did not have TWO superstars after Yao went down. In that scenario, starting the best player is the best for the team.

This is completely different with Jeremy Lin. He has to play behind Harden and Dwight, and is probably the 4th option in the starting lineup. Do you prefer if he was a role player with minimal chance to show case himself? Or a 6th man with the freedom to lead the 2nd unit and be the primary option?

If the Rockets did not have Harden or Dwight, then Lin would be starting. In fact, if the Rockets do not have Harden, Lin would be starting.

This is about maximizing effectiveness. Lin's effectiveness is maximized when he doesn't have to share the ball with Harden.

 

:O They're doing the Bev/PG and Lin/SG at the start of the 2nd quarter. Interesting... Also DMo isn't looking very good out there.

 

I think BBAAB was on subject while your are changing the subject of the discussion here.

We are talking about Lin start and stage minutes would be a solution, vs come off bench as 6th man.

You are talking about Lin on the bench with low minutes as role player and 6th man.