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How Many Shots are Available to the Rockets Starting Power Forward?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jtr, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    You showed him!

    Please, regale us with more of your exploits our benevolent master!
     
  2. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Would you point me to any stats based post on this forum? Would you introduce me to one person who is competent and fluent in serious data analysis? Can you enlighten me about who is capable of discussing statistical analysis with me?

    Thought not. You are just being righteously indignant. Not impressed.
     
  3. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    John, is that you?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    Please do not insult my supreme leader Russell Crowe.
     
  5. jtr

    jtr Member

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    God I wish it were. Money for nothing. Chicks for free. LOL
     
  6. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    This post did not get the attention it deserves.
     
  7. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    Those would all be good points if CH had a BS in mathematics.

    As it stands he's just an obnoxious ingrate trying to smear the name of our lord and savior, jtr.
     
  8. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Funny enough, I do have a MS in mathematics. Haven't really had to use this stuff much in recent years after moving on to a different line of work, but I do remember enough math to see that the stuff posted in the OP being nothing more than bull****.

    But really, kind of pointless to make claims about diplomas and courses taken in college on the internet since there is no verification anyway. None of the stuff being discussed here-- i.e. shots per minutes as calculated by the "leftover method" that the OP favors-- requires anything remotely "advanced." So, if you want people to respect your analysis, make a decent analysis and explains it well. Talking about one's supposed brilliance is just not a useful way to convince people or make them understand-- on this BBS or elsewhere.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    But have you had your professor in DiffEQ say something something I'm so smart something something standard deviation?

    I didn't think so.
     
  10. jtr

    jtr Member

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    The underlying analysis in incorrect. This simplistic view does not take into consideration the players involved on the court. If you remember I explicitly stated that the analysis was valid for the PF on the court with the starters at the other four positions.

    You truly cannot compare apples to oranges. It may be correct, but it needs a lot of background investigation. I cannot be responsible for that task. Anyone willing to step up?
     
  11. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

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    Surprise that no one point out the fundamental flaw in the OP thread,

    From what I ( a layman with basic math and basketball knowledge.) can understand, the whole premise of shots available to the 5th starter who will play all 33 minutes with the other 4 starters,will be around 5-6/shots, is that the remaining 15 minutes will be played solely by bench players.

    How is that even possible?

    Not going into the argument on how LA can help the rox, when

    JTR, love the different approach to start an idea, but not that much when you refuse to accept criticism. And 1 unfortunate part about using math, is that when you are using variables/guesses, math is now thrown out of the window. Unless its something concrete like contracts, math in basketball will only be an estimate, not the rule.
     
  12. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Kind of funny that you have yet to show an inkling of understanding of mathematics. Not saying it isn't so, but you seem to be struggling with the basic data transforms needed to analyze the data. I have had interns do much better than you. But it could just be that they were "fresher" with the information.
     
  13. jtr

    jtr Member

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    There is a basic notion or precept in analysis that, well I do not know how to describe it to you, that every whole is made up of the sum of its parts. That does not adequately describe it. Basically there are some finite number of data points that when amalgamated together yields the whole? Closer. But how does this impact the question you posed?

    Lets take the issue of the Rockets four starters impacting the number of shots the PF takes. If the four other starters play 33 straight minutes with the PF(s) and that yields 6 shots per 33 minutes for the PF, is that equivalent to the effect of staggering the starters minutes on the number of shots the PF(s) take? I am arguing yes and most people here are arguing no without really understanding what the issue is or what side they are taking. Just so long as it is not my side.

    Given that data sets are just composed of their individual data points I would propose that a staggered Harden, Howard, Lin and Parsons has an approximately equal effect on the power forwards shots to a continuous lineup of Howard, Harden, Lin and Parsons. Admittedly there is a lot more behind my analysis than just this. And this is a very specific domain and it probably differs from an ideal domain.

    OK. I am probably talking Latin here. Sorry.
     
  14. cmlmel77

    cmlmel77 Up all Night Watching Houston Sports
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    The difference is that I wasn't trying to impress you. I couldn't care less about you or your supposed superiority.

    For the record, though, I have a magna c*m laude degree with a triple major in mathematical economic analysis, statistics and computer science from Rice, plus a Harvard MBA. I feel more than competent in discussing statistical analysis with you.

    And I am well aware that there are others here who are far ahead of me in mathematics and statistics. I have no idea whether you are one of them, but then neither do you.
     
  15. jedicro

    jedicro Member

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    Haha, even when you're not attacking someone you're full of yourself.

    "Here, let me talk dumb-like so you simple-minded ones can understand...whoops, I let my brilliant intellect get away with me again. Sorry, it's so hard to contain."
     
  16. jtr

    jtr Member

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    So, be my guest. Show me your chops. And if you truthfully stated your resume there is no one here that can even hold a candle to you. Me included. I may have a math degree, but I have been very public in my opinion that statistics is a "black art" so to speak.

    So go right ahead. Show me what you know. Clarify what I said in post 193 on this thread. It touched on abstract algebra and data set analysis. Make my murky words clear.
     
    #196 jtr, Oct 8, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  17. cmlmel77

    cmlmel77 Up all Night Watching Houston Sports
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    This is prima facia absurd, regardless of how many out-of-context statistical terms you throw out.

    Your entire (simplistic) analysis was essentially:
    1) Rockets take x shots per minute
    2) The other four starters averaged (last year) y shots per minute
    3) Scaled over 33 minutes, 33*x - 33*y = 8-9 shots remaining over those 33 minutes.
    4) The PF will play 33 minutes alongside the starters, and Dwight will take more shots, therefore he will get 5-6 shots while playing with the starters.

    1-3 above are fine, as far as the analysis goes. It is, as you say, grade-school math.

    #4 is an illogical leap because it does assume all five players play together. If they do not, and if one or more is replaced by a lower usage player along with the new PF, then more shots will be available per minute while the new PF is in the game. That is also grade-school math, though perhaps a slightly higher grade than you achieved.

    The correct math is:
    1) The Rockets take x shots per minute
    2) The starters will each play 33 minutes at various points in the game and collectively take y shots per minute during those minutes
    3) Over a 48 minute game, that results in 48*x - 33*y remaining shots available to all other players, including any new PF.

    That math isn't perfect either because it ignores interaction effects, but it is much better than yours.

    This really isn't that hard. But, as I once said to another particularly arrogant dullard - we can keep explaining it to you, but we can't understand it for you.
     
  18. jtr

    jtr Member

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    You are just a mere pain in the ass. I have been retired since I was 50 so I can stay up till whenever. What is your excuse? Are you up so late because you are unemployed and you live with your mother? Did that hit to close to home? Go away. You are an annoyance.
     
  19. jtr

    jtr Member

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    That was really impressive. I do respect it honestly. I have been trying to get a concise critique since I posted this thread. But I believe that your critique of #4 is off base. I could be wrong. Is there really any reason to believe that staggered minutes from Harden, Howard, Lin and Parsons has any net different effect on the number of power forward shots than if all five were playing together? The number of shots over a season is rock steady for Harden, Howard, Lin and Parsons. They are the stars and wannabe stars. They will demand shots whenever they play. An argument can be made that the weakest link in the lineup will give up the most shots, but is the PF a strong player on the bench?
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Member

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    And I will be posting serious statistical analysis threads in the near future. I would be honored if you could comment (critique) some of them.
     

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