Obama made the error that led to congressional gridlock and the partial govt shutdown

This is Democracy. Why are we acting like this is a strategy that has never been used before? Democrats themselves have used it before.

 

Yes, I would be just as mad at Democrats using blackmail and holding the government and economy hostage for partisan sniping.

 

I don't consider it blackmail. They're asking to negotiate. Harry Reid won't even allow them to go to conference.

 

ACA is the law.

Obama won in 2008 and was re-elected 2012.

ACA was passed, challenged repeatedly by states and GOP, and upheld by Supreme Court.

That is democracy. Get over it.

 

They aren't "asking" for anything. They threatened to and then shut down the government in order to try and force the Senate to do something that they will not do.

Maybe you're right about "blackmail," "extortion" seems like a more appropriate descriptor...

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSHən/
noun
noun: extortion; plural noun: extortions

1.
the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats.
synonyms: blackmail, shakedown; More

 

Really?

Democrats Take the Gavels in Congress
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/washington/04cnd-cong.html?_r=0

By DAVID STOUT
Published: January 4, 2007

WASHINGTON, Jan. 4 — Jubilant Democrats took the gavels in the Senate and House today for the first time in 12 years, pledging a new era in Congress and a new effort at bipartisan progress.

 

Blackmailing the Senate to negotiate...

 

Guess I was wrong. Numbers I had were 44-55 Republican/202-231 Republican.

 

There is no reason for the Senate to negotiate over the ACA, all of that negotiation happened years ago. It isn't the Senate's fault that the GOP abdicated their place in the process, they could have played a central role, but chose to ask for a "clean sheet of paper" instead.

The Senate should NOT bend to threats or extortion.

 

When? When did Democrats shutdown the government force through the preferences of an extreme wing of their party? When? When did Democrats threaten the fate of the economy and the credit of the government to overturn a democratically passed and supreme court vetted law? There is nothing to "negotiate" here. There are simply demands. This budget resolution simply pays for what congress already agreed to spend.

This is banana republic level governance. This is textbook extortion.

We have seen this type of intransigence before:

"Will they be satisfied if the Territories be unconditionally surrendered to them? We know they will not. In all their present complaints against us, the Territories are scarcely mentioned. Invasions and insurrections are the rage now. Will it satisfy them, if, in the future, we have nothing to do with invasions and insurrections? We know it will not. We so know, because we know we never had anything to do with invasions and insurrections; and yet this total abstaining does not exempt us from the charge and the denunciation.

"The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.

"These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them."

http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

 

The Republicans refused to appoint members to go to conference for over a year. That was the time to negotiate.

 

This very morning we saw President Obama threatening the economy by essentially encouraging the stock market to crash.

When did we see Republicans threaten the credit of the government? This is not a debt-ceiling debate. They are separate issues.

Yes there is a demand...to negotiate. Have they not asked to go to conference? Has Harry Reid not given a resounding and emphatic NO?

 

Yesterday was yesterday, today is today. Is Harry Reid not appointing conference appointees because he is upset about the past? How mature of the Majority Leader.

 

That's what you've got? Oh, please. You aren't making any sense. In fact, I'm wondering why I'm replying to you, with all due respect. It's a waste of time.

 

Than don't. To be honest, I am spending too much time arguing with you guys anyways. I should be working.

No one is changing anyone's mind here.

 

Democrats asked 18 times in the last year to go to conference to discuss the deficit and Boehner said no. And now he wants to go to conference?.

Oops! Giff beat me to it

 

You are purposefully being obtuse. The president did no such thing. He asked for the Speaker to let the House vote.

Read the post just above this one.

The last time the debt ceiling was up for a vote.

Negotiation involves compromise. Democrats have yielded to Republicans repeatedly. These are demands. The demand is not to negotiate. That is the focus group tested marketing term. The demand is to have democrats agree to Republican demands under the guise of negotiations.

Again. When have Democrats taken these exact actions? When did they shutdown the government? When?

 

The facts aren't a matter of opinion. The fact is Republicans are leveraging a government shutdown over legislation legally passed and upheld as legal by the Supreme Court. The fact is that Republicans have demonized the law so much that when the public is asked if they support the ingredients of the law they say yes and when they're asked if they support the law they say no. It's proof positive that Republicans are constantly trying to fool the public into voting against the things they actually support.

 

Weak you say seems to me that he's a lot stronger then you are the GOP thought he would be standing his ground on ACA and other issues.