We can agree to disagree. I'm not for firing Kubiak now, like mid-season. I was and won't be convinced otherwise, of the belief that Kubiak should have been fired many years ago along with the ST coach. I think he had a longer failure leash than other coaches. I agree w/ your stability point, but I think you're crazy if you think there's no accountability in the NFL. The Texans are far more lenient on their coaches in that respect over history, not just this season, than other winning organizations.
I wasn't ever for firing him. He took over a horrible team AND was a new coach. That usually doesn't spell success. Since then his teams have gotten better every year. He took a franchise that once thought 8-8 was a success to 8-8 being unacceptable. Fans always take success for granted (Hell, I see Patriot fans calling for Belichick's head after every playoff loss nowadays.) as for the ST coach, that's on Kubiak. I think the Steelers are far more lenient than the Texans. Look at how long they kept Cowher, and how long they are keeping Tomlin despite recent failures. I also think this goes a LONG way for getting a new coach. We'd never have a chance at getting a guy like Gruden or Cowher if we were the Raiders or Cowboys...because those teams have gained the reputation of being panicky teams that make big changes every year instead of opting for stability. Yet when it was thought that Kubiak was on the hot seat we heard whispers that a guy like Cowher would have came here if the job opened. The Texans did make a pretty big change though in bringing in Wade Phillips. The Texans do have accountability. The problem is though that Kubiak continues to find success so how can you fire him? Talking about the past and his struggles in the past is useless now that he's actually found success. I know one thing, if he does get fired it won't be long before he's coaching another team. I do agree, the have stuck with JOE far too long...but that return wasn't even on him...I mean just look at the angle that Keo takes on Doss. It's just...it's just dumb as hell.
When you've got Arian Foster, in his prime, you better be able to squeeze out a couple of winning seasons. And the NFL is a network of good old boys, and I think Kubiak must be very good at making those sort of men feel comfortable around him. I've no doubt that he'll be about to aw shucks his way into another job, and I'm hoping that happens sooner rather than later. And he can take Schaub with him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harbaugh 1st 5 years: 67% games won, 5 years made playoffs, SB win in 2012 (4th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Coughlin 1st 5 years: 59% games won, 4 years made playoffs, SB win 2007 and 2011 (4th yr & 8th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_McCarthy_(American_football) 1st 5 years: 60% games won, 5 years made playoffs, SB win in 2010 (5th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Payton 1st 5 years: 61% games won, 3 years made playoffs, SB win in 2009 (4th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Tomlin 1st 5 years: 69% games won, 4 years made playoffs, SB win in 2008 (2nd yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Dungy 1st 5 years: 75% games won, 5 years made playoffs, SB win in 2006 (5th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher 1st 5 years: 66% games won, 5 years made playoffs, 1 SB appearance (4th yr), SB win in 2005(14th yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick 1st 5 years: 66% games won, 3 years made playoffs, SB win 2004 (5th yr), 2003 (4th yr), 2001 (2nd yr) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Kubiak 1st 5 years: 46% games won, 0 years made playoffs I agree with the stability point, but it comes with accountability and winning. The Texans were loyal to failing and in my worthless opinion, I thought Kubiak was here too long and isn't the model coach to win a SB. I hope I'm wrong. This doesn't mean I want him fired now. I do think Marciano should be fired everyday and twice on Sundays.
Sometimes it takes the next coach to win big in the playoffs. I do agree that Kubiak helped (along w/ the front office finally acquiring good talent) turn a perennial loser into a winning team. He had a lot of rope though. I think he'll get another job too if fired. His job should still be on the hot seat depending on how this season goes. There has to be a diminishing returns at some point. Stability can't be #1 forsaking everything else.
Well Kubiak is the reason we even have Foster... The Belichick one is wrong. He went .450 coaching the Browns and took them to the playoffs once. Just think if the Browns had the patience of Bob McNair they would have had one of the greatest coaches to ever coach the game for their team. I just disagree with Kubiak. If those first 5 years he was winning 5 games and constantly our team sucked then I would have agreed...but we saw the progress there. His 2nd year he went 8-8 and third matched that. Pretty good for a coach taking over a team that was the laughing stock of the league. If only they didn't play in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL at the time..
If anyone gets fired mid season from the coaching staff, it should be Old Joe. The man has a great eye for talent, but apparently once the rule changes hit, he can't coach coverage for crap. Sadly, I am pretty sure he knows where the owner or GM have buried some bodies because I can't believe he could stay this long through two regimes without showing anything significant even if the front office really doesn't give a crap about special teams.
Sometimes it does, but the teams that have cut coaches that were having success usually have a hard time rebounding from it. If you think about teams like the Jags who cut Del Rio who was pretty successful there and always had them in the playoff hunt. Titans who with Fisher were the same way. Eagles..well verdict is still out on them... Chargers have never been the same since firing Marty... Every team that let Parcells go it seems... I mean if we finish off this season and are drafting top 10 then hey, it has to be seriously considered at least. But if the team loses a tough game in the playoffs once again, meh get better and hope to go further next year. I think that's the way to handle it in the NFL.
Gruden - won SB in 1st yr Billick - won SB in 2nd yr Vermeil - won SB in 3rd yr Shanahan - won SB in 3rd & 4th yr Holmgren - won SB in 5th yr Seifert - won SB in 1st & 6th yr Switzer - won SB in 2nd yr Jimmy Johnson - won SB in 4th & 5th yr Joe Gibbs - won SB in 2nd, 7th, & 11th yr Bill Parcells - won SB in 4th & 8th yr
This is silly. There are plenty of examples of coaching changes working. There are plenty of them not working. Tampa Bay fired their coach who had them in the playoffs and consistently good for many years and immediately won a Superbowl with their new coach. The 49ers fired multiple coaches until they found a good one and went from terrible to the Superbowl in his first year. Arizona did the same. On the flipside, San Diego fired their coaches who regularly got them into the playoffs and got no further as a result. There is no one right formula to follow.
Who knows if Belichick would have won w/o Bray or w/o cheating or w/ the Browns? The point is, he didn't work out in Cleveland and the reason he was able to stay in New England was bc he won in New England. Successful SB winning coaches aren't sitting in their thrones for 5 years building a team and having no success. SB winning coaches are finding playoff success and SB success early in their tenures. It's a chicken and the egg argument. Success breeds stability. Is it possible to win w/ the Kubiak model...maybe...but I'm just saying history is against the Texans. I agree that Kubiak has done relatively well at helping turning this team around. History says that this is as far as he'll go and that if the Texans were to win the SB, it'd be with the next guy.
And some of the greatest coaches... Tom Landry...won it his 12th year. Belichick- 8th year. Shula- 10th year Coughlin - 12th year. Shanny won it his 5th year, not 3rd. He coached the Raiders before the Broncos. Cower - 13th year...and this is the guy everyone is clamoring for even still. I maintain, it's about reaching the playoffs and giving yourself a chance.
So for the last 18 SB winning coaches (I stopped going back further bc this seems like enough evidence), everybody won the SB w/in their 1st 5 years except for Bill Cowher who made the Super Bowl in his 4th yr. Most had overwhelming regular season and playoff success. Look, I get that every situation is different. But when do you act then? You have to act, don't you? Isn't your goal as a Texans fan, to want the Texans to win the Super Bowl? No you honestly believe that Kubiak can and will do that? What if the evidence points elsewhere? How long do you wait to act? If you have to go back to Landry to find a counter example, you lose. It's about winning early w/ the team they're winning with. You CANNOT separate the coach from the team. All your examples are wrong in that sense. Can Kubiak win a SB? I think so, but not with the Texans. If he does, he will be bucking the SB coach winning model of the last 20 years.
Gruden won a Superbowl in his first year with Tampa Bay. Over the next six seasons he went 45-51. I'm not convinced Gruden is the answer.
It's not silly at all. Ask any of the actual NFL guys, they CONSTANTLY say stability is key. The 49ers sucked those years. They were still giving their coaches at least 3 seasons. Arizona is the last franchise I'd like to have my team model themselves after. Tampa Bay seems to be the exception and not the rule.
How in the world does Shanny head coaching the Raiders in 88 and 89 have anything to do with him coaching the Broncos starting in 1995? The whole point is, in the last 20 years, SB winning coaches have won early (not in their careers necessarily) with their SB winning teams. That's factual. If Kubiak wins the SB with Houston, that will be a tremendous departure from history. Cower is the only one who bucked the trend in the last 20 years. He made the SB in his 4th year, made the playoffs in 10 or 14 years, had 62% winning and won the SB in his 14th year w/ the Steelers.
But that is not true, Belichick won it his 7th. You act when your team is going backwards...Kubiak has been EVER going forward...except for ONE year his team took a step back. So when Kubiak's team starts to go backwards instead of forward you act. When he's taking a laughing stock franchise and in his 2nd year has them competing for the playoffs in a division that was at the time the toughest division, you give him another year or so...which they did...and since then he's been moving his team forward.
