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An Analytical Approach to the Rockets 2013-2014 season

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jtr, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    The poster-child for this approach: Greg Smith. Likely a fairly solid/average player considering the good (finishing around the basket, good man defender in the post) and the bad (limited range, no rim protection) but the Oliver/BR model makes him look stellar.
     
  2. PuzzledFan

    PuzzledFan Member

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    May I please speak in defense of JC Denton, I know that he will not defend himself. His entire post is in the nature of banter and is being misinterpreted. Is it not obvious from his last sentence that he is being facetious? Yes, he has a thing for graphs and graphics, and that's been a running joke on ClutchFans for years. The pretended complaining about the lack of graphics was a bit of self-deprecating humor, and I certainly laughed when I read it. I never saw anything in the post besides a backhanded compliment for the original post coupled with a slight dig at the tone of succeeding posts, and a light-hearted mock rant in which Mr. Denton poked as much fun at himself as he did at jtr. I'm sure that he's stunned that anybody took him seriously. I know that I am.

     
    1 person likes this.
  3. jtr

    jtr Member

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    There needs to be a sarcastic font.Maybe Comic Sans?
     
  4. jtr

    jtr Member

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    And there is Chris Anderson with the 11th highest RAPM in the league last season.

    Season Age Lg FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% WS/48
    2013-14 35 NBA 4.3 8.0 0.2 0.5 3.5 5.3 3.1 9.6 1.2 1.1 2.5 1.5 4.5 12.3 .538 .406 .657 .192

    And that certainly does not meet the smell test. He only had 642 minutes last season and RAPM would have someone believe that he contributed at a higher rate than Harden.

    If blindly applied none of the advanced stats work well. It takes someone who understands them well, along with a high BB IQ to make sense of them.
     
  5. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Chris Andersen was a more believable surprisingly elite player in limited minutes (like Dikembe Mutombo was during his time in Houston, especially the earlier years) than Greg Smith was.

    Birdman's limited minutes can be explained by 1) his age, 2) the fact that he was just coming back after a long absence from the NBA and 3) Miami was already dominating the regular season and didn't need to burn old vets like him in the regular season. The guy brings the kind of length and energy to the game that no other Miami big really can. His team was also significantly better with him on the floor both in the season and during the playoffs. And by the way, Anderson does really well under the Bball-reference WS method, too. In fact, Amdersen's WS per 48 minutes is the 4th best in the league and for some reason this doesn't taint WS as a measurement for you but him being 11th on RAPM somehow makes you think RAPM is questionable?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48


    Smith, on the other hand, could not save his team from sucking defensively without Asik on the floor. He also didn't consistently outplay a cast of PFs that were average to below average (worse after the trade deadline). After a 11 game stint as starting PF his team decided they were better off playing SGs Harden and Delfino at the PF spot for 48 minutes per game.

    RAPM can indeed be misused, most of all by people who don't understand the concept of margin for error. With any kind of stats derived from a sample, a player's actual ability to make an impact may be somewhat more or less than he showed during his minutes simply as a matter of luck-- much like a players true ability to hit free throws may be better or worse than his season FT% suggests. Specifically, the fact that Birdman is ranked 11th overall in RAPM doesn't mean he must be better than #12 and #13 and worse than #10 on the RAPM list. It's really a rough range. His true ability to help his team may be somewhat better or worse than his RAPM shows, but chances are he's pretty good and is in the conversation for a place among the most impactful guys-- among them are excellent defensive bigs like Asik, Larry Sanders, etc.
     
    #65 Carl Herrera, Sep 20, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
  6. jtr

    jtr Member

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    And every single point you make is exquisite. If you are putting your toe into the advanced statistical analysis waters you do have to know what you are doing. And I do have a uniquely qualified resume to tread there.

    When I am looking at RAPM I use the total number of possessions provided at

    http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2013.html

    to gauge the effect of the player. I have absolutely no idea where he gets his possessions data from, but since I have no other reliable source for the data I just accept his numbers as the gospel truth.

    Anyway I am extending the data presented initially into an interactive graphics package allowing the user to select a player, the games missed and the analysis technique. It is almost done, but I do not think that I will make it public until I have extended it to the entire NBA. And the possible useful extensions are obvious. Can I copyright it?

    Anyway Carl I do appreciate your input.
     
  7. basketballholic

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    In today's NBA,

    until there are rules changes,

    a 5 man who is a negative on the defensive end is useless...no matter how many point he puts in the hole.

    A 5 in today's NBA has to be able to defend and board above average to be worth having on the floor. Hence Birdman's value over Greg Smith's.

    That is a principle that is in play right now that analytics only verifies.
     
  8. jtr

    jtr Member

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    And so how do you account for Brook Lopez?
     
  9. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Lol. Please do share the resume that "uniquely" qualifies you to speak about "advanced statistical analysis" in basketball.

    [​IMG]

    Plenty of people here have had meaningful discussions on the topic and many understand and can explain the relevant concepts more clearly and meaningfully than you.
     
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  10. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Hmm. I can't figure out why people are giving you 3 star threads. Must be lost in the advanced statistics.
     
  11. jtr

    jtr Member

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    CE degree, math degree. SE, SA (one of four defining 10+ million lines of code communicating between 4 different platforms and processors), and team lead for 3 years on data mining and analytic processing on a mulibillion dollar project by a fortune 25 corporation. You have never lived until a senior vice president has personally called you up for data to support a $100++ million development initiative for a new product. We processed daily hundreds of GB of information and did things unheard of at the time such as incredibly intricate perl scripts to prioritize textual context and key words from information from tens of thousands of customers. Oh wait I did do the Oracle design of the DB to hold all of that data. Fully normalized. And if you think that is easy Carl I recommend you try surviving a jump out of a plane at 10K feet without a parachute.

    Is that good enough for you Carl?
     
  12. bobloblaw

    bobloblaw Member

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    So what particular basketball-related statistical qualifications do you have?
     
  13. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    So many alleged resume items. Yet so little evidence of actual ability to explain the statistical analysis at hand. Interesting.
     
  14. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Basketball analysis is easy compared to that. I have invested a year understanding the entire array of advanced NBA stats. Trust me it is trivial compared to what I have accomplished in the past. If I am intelligent enough to do the huge corporate thing BB analysis is a walk in the park. Besides I have been a hard core Rockets fan for 30 years.
     
  15. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Is there any frickin case to be make that I am not accomplished on this subject? Get real. A pretender could have not put together that post in 10 minutes.
     
  16. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Because the ones that understand what I am talking about give me 5 stars and the clueless people give me 1 star? Which group are you in??? Honestly I am just presenting advanced analysis basics here. In the community these posts do not elicit any backlash. But here on CF where everyone thinks they are a genius...
     
  17. JustAGuy

    JustAGuy Member

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    You may be peeved, but that is an unfair question. Aside from people employed by professional basketball teams, basketball-related statistics is generally a hobbyist sport; there are no basketball-related statistical qualifications to have.
     
  18. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Thanks. I do not post topics that I do not have a complete understanding of. Most of the backlash is from posters who cannot or will not understand the initial post. I graduated from such simplistic models a year ago. And I am well on my way to being a professional.
     
  19. JustAGuy

    JustAGuy Member

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    Let the work you do speak for itself; you are going to get under peoples skin if you speak about yourself instead of about the statistics you are working on.
     
  20. jtr

    jtr Member

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    Honestly you sound like Bima counseling me to back it up a few notches. And that is a huge complement. Thanks.
     

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