You guys are better served slamming your faces into brick walls. That would be more productive than discussing anything with treeman.
Uh, you mean prove that I am telling the truth? Interwebz, dude. Not possible. Sorry, what revelation did I miss? I think I got the jist of it. Nobody trusts poor widdle atheists, boo-hoo... If there was a deeper insight in the article then enlighten me. It's a laughing matter because your position appear to be that if a religious display is held on public property, or if students pray on public property, then it automatically constitutes an endorsement by the entity responsible for the management of that property. And that is laughable. So, if I go to the local public park and have a prayer meeting owned and operated by the city, does that mean that the city is endorsing my religion? Perhaps if the city manager or the head of the parks and recreation department shows up and leads the prayer, yeah. But otherwise... No. So yeah, laughable. They can do whatever they want. As I've said repeatedly, I'm a "whatever floats your boat" kind of guy. But I do find it a bit entertaining that you appear to believe that you can read my mind. Do you think you are psychic, by any chance? LOL, are we turning back to that now? Mr. Know-It-All... Eh, I don't really care. And I wouldn't believe it anyway. I was an atheist in high school (agnostic atheist, really), and no one gave a crap. And that was over two decades ago. It's only gotten more acceptable since then.
I am saying if I were an 8 year old child in public school trying to fit in and belong it would make me uncomfortable. I am too old to be in school now. You understand that right? An 8 year old might feel ashamed that they don't have a religion or are somehow different from others. Peer pressure is very big for kids. I think you need to stop this line of conversation.
So you can't prove I'm not god? Got it. I guess I am then. So you can't be bothered to read? Got it. Roll those eyes some more. jesus love that stuff. Students can pray as much as they want. Nobody stops them just like nobody stops my muslim kids from having beards. Quit tossing up strawmen, kthx. And yes, if it's on public, GOVERNMENT property, it's government sponsored. It's not rocket surgery, brah. Did the park put up crosses and buddhas for you out of the city budget? No? Then I don't have a problem with it. Apples to oranges, sir, but you knew that, didn't you? Will you say anything to win an argument for jebus? Sad. I'm god, remember? You never proved I wasn't, after all. LOL, are we turning back to that now? Mr. Know-It-All... Eh, I don't really care. And I wouldn't believe it anyway. I was an atheist in high school (agnostic atheist, really), and no one gave a crap. And that was over two decades ago. It's only gotten more acceptable since then.[/QUOTE]
I'm turning into treeman, not able to quote properly. And there we have it. Evidence be damned, you won't believe it. That's the perfect statement to describe dear old treeman right there. Love it!
OK. I choose to believe otherwise. I read enough. Again, what nugget of wisdom was I supposed to draw from it that I missed? In my first post in this thread I commented on the propensity towards mockery by atheists. I believe it to be a defense mechanism. Just not on school property, right? So, everything that takes place on public, government property is sponsored by the government? Really? Really? Gunman walks into a courthouse and shoots a judge = government sponsored killing. Little Matthew wears Hello Kitty shirts to school and calls himself Mattie = government sponsored homosexuality. Kid has rap music glorifying sex, drugs, and murder on his iPhone = government sponsored promotion of sex, drugs and murder. Kid brings a joint to school and smokes it in the bathroom = government sponsorship of drug use... Could go on and on, but really, it's pretty freaking absurd. The simple fact that something takes place on public property does *not* imply sponsorship or endorsement by the entity managing that property. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. And as I said earlier, unless the school pays for and sets up the nativity scene it is not endorsement or sponsorship. I agree that if the school foots the bill or sets up such a display then it probably represents endorsement, or at least could be construed as such. But if it doesn't foot the bill then it's not. There's the mockery again. And you wonder why no one likes atheists? I choose to believe that you are not. I realize that I run the risk of eternal damnation if I am wrong. I'll take my chances in this case, since you already said you are a school teacher.
I forgive you. Although I am fairly certain that I am not God, so I doubt it's worth much. :grin: GASP! You mean because I accept my own anecdotal evidence over your anecdotal evidence I am simply a a close-minded, slack-jawed, ignorant, anti-science bigot, right? I can read between the lines, you know. Evidence be damned. You don't like my "evidence", and I don't like yours. So clearly, you are correct. There can be no dispute. Because. Because.
I recently sat in on some elementary school classes for a project, and I observed the "moment of silence" in various grade level classrooms from kindergarten to 4th grade. I didn't notice any of the kids appearing to be uncomfortable at all. They all seemed to enjoy it in their own way, from what I could tell. I get that peer pressure is big and that kids constantly worry about what others thing of them. But I don't buy that this particular issue is a big issue anymore. Atheism is very widespread nowadays and is fairly mainstream in public schools. No one gives a crap anymore. Why? Is it making you uncomfortable? Why don't you talk about that? [/relaxes into padded leather seat with notepad in hand, glasses slightly forward on bridge of nose, attentive expression in the eyes, ready to notate]
Who do you think the average person associates more with Christmas -- Jesus or Santa Claus? Millions of non-Christians around the world celebrate Christmas. Given that, your insistence that it is foremost a Christian holiday seems strange to me. I guess its a subjective thing. To me, there is a religious side to it, but also a secular, commercial aspect to it. The very devout (perhaps you fall in this category) may think of it mostly as a religious holiday, but certainly not everyone sees it that way.
So many non-Christians celebrate Christmas. We used to have a Christmas tree when we were kids and loved it. We never saw it as a religious holiday. Just a fun one. The thing that ruined Christmas for me wasn't the religious aspect, it was the complete commercialization and wind-up - a month of Christmas music and commercials.
Probably Santa Claus if they're under 15 or so. Or if they are a non-Christian. Actual Christians take it more seriously. Actual Christians look forward to that early morning Christmas service. But again, this is a complete waste of time to debate. There's no way to argue that Christmas is not a Christian holiday. It's absurd and disingenuous, and I am not going to play that game.
Christmas is never ruined. You always get another chance next year. Non-Christians celebrate it for the family and gifting aspects. That is fine. But as I said earlier, the fact that non-Christians ignore the religious aspects of the holiday does not make it a secular holiday.
It is a Christian holiday. Its also a commercial holiday. It can be two things at once, can't it? Santa Claus, his elves, and Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer have nothing to do with the Christian religion.
Only if you have money. It's nice to be blessed. Please. Since, by your words, I convulse through prayer, I'm having a seizure from your trollish overreaction by what seems like a Hail Mary. I didn't say anything about atheist parents. The nuttiest overreactive parents seem to be the religious ones. Let's not switch focus here. Religious doesn't always equal Christian. It's as forced as having the freedom to fart wet ones and expecting everyone near you to tolerate it with **** eating grins.
So you think God gave me money? Obtuse. Does that not equal "stupid" when referencing a person's thought processes? Oh, BTW, the "Troll" card is the [second-best[/i] card to play with a winning debate hand... Yes, you did. The memory hole is only a post or two away, you know... ...but those parents aren't going to take it lightly, and they could use their kids as their religiousity prop as well. Your words. Care to perhaps explain in a more detailed, perhaps less obtuse way what you *ahem*, really meant? Wow, we are really raising the level of discourse here, aren't we? And BTW, do I need to point out that you *DO* in fact have the freedom to perform Mudbutt at any time that you wish. Expecting others to tolerate it is a bit of a stretch; most of them will probably just either gag or laugh at you. I would laugh.
