Morey: "McHale will experiment with Asik at C and Dwight at PF"

I said "part of a package". You're attempting to twist my words.

 

Just glad to help.....and its Mr.Cleofus to you sir.:grin:

 

OK, then it's delusional to draw the line that LeBron, Melo, Bosh or Love must be in a return package for Asik. Rockets won't get any of those guys. All 4 teams would laugh at Morey.

Are you willing to throw Parsons in the deal? If so, the chances improve from none to slim.

 

What about 3-team deal with Asik, Ilyasova, and Eric Gordon as the main pieces. (May need to add picks from the Bucks to the Pelicans)

HOU-Asik for Ilyasova
MIL-Ilyasova for Eric Gordon
NO-Eric Gordon for Asik

 

It is not delusional to think that we could trade Asik along with other assets for a better player than Asik. That was my point. I threw out a few names. They're not the only ones.

IF THERE IS ANOTHER SUPERSTAR THAT COMES ON THE TRADE MARKET DURING THIS SEASON (and there most likely will be) THEN Asik along with other assets would be better used in acquiring that superstar than to trade Asik for 70 cents on the dollar simply because another player is a better need fit at the moment.

For your information it's about 50/50 right now that Melo gets traded before the deadline. No telling what other scenarios are going to unfold with other superstars by Feb 2014.

 

What is all this talk about a third superstar? That's now the blueprint for a championship because of the Miami and Boston teams?

I really wonder how a guy like Melo would fit in with Harden and Howard, and how they would share the ball.

I think Dallas did a great job in their championship year by putting together a balanced team with chemistry. They were just stupid to let Chandler go.

 

Answer my question: Are you willing to give up Parsons + Asik to get a "better player than Asik"? If yes, something like that might happen but it won't be a superstar. Otherwise, the Rockets will be hard pressed to get a better player since their other assets aren't very good. Salary cap issues also present a problem.

I trust Morey to make the best decision for the team which, IMO, means there is a good chance Asik will be traded before the season and almost certainly by the deadline. His trade value will drop next summer.

If you have one, what is your source about a 50/50 chance Melo is traded? If he is it won't be here.

 

Don't need to give up Parsons. We have plenty of other young talent, picks, and players. The talent that could be amassed by trading Asik and Lin different places plus picks plus DMO/TJones/GSmith, etc. That's enough to acquire another superstar.

FOR INSTANCE, if Ainge were to trade RONDO...he's not going to get offers that excede what we could give him in Asik/Lin plus youngsters and picks. That's just one example.

Another for instance....if the KNICKS finally figure out that Melo is leaving them high and dry after 13/14 season to go to the Lakers....tell me what is the trade market for Melo??? And let's be realistic. Melo can't be simply traded just anywhere. They're not going to get equal value for him. Melo has to basically approve of wherever he's traded by signing an extension, or signing not to opt out before he could be traded for anything of value.

But here we sit....

Love??? Same thing. Those guys force their way out and when they do their old teams have to take best value.

We have a team that has 2 superstars on it...that a 3rd superstar can look at and see that he's going to compete for a ring every year for the next 5-7 years. So, we're attractive to those type guys. It's a matter of waiting for that right guy.

It is not delusional to think that Asik could help bring in talent like that. It is being narrow-minded and ignorant to think that he couldn't.

 

Equal value is hard to obtain,but these offers can be trumped.

 

So you have nothing for the 50/50 chance of the Knicks trading Melo. I figured as much.

Lin has no trade value. Nobody wants him. For trade value, Asik + Lin < Asik by himself. Greg Smith, seriously? T-Jones? You've got to be kidding. D-Mo? Same thing. You aren't the only fan who overvalues home team players. Asik + any combo of these guys definitely won't get a superstar. Throw in Parsons and the slammed door at least cracks open.

If there weren't 28 other teams in the NBA competing with the Rockets for these superstars that will supposedly be on the block, maybe they could trade Asik + chump change and get one. But reality is reality.

 

You're ignoring the fact that the two don't have to play alongside each other to be effective on the same team. Asik as backup still has plenty of value and has even more next year with a substantial expiring contract.

This is why the Rockets aren't even remotely desperate to do anything with Asik at this point, certainly not for the likes of Ryan Anderson. I see Morey waiting until he sees other teams desperate at the trade deadline, as Asik will be good trade bait both this year and next year and worst case scenario is we have an excellent starting/backup tandem at center with the ability to go big against teams who run two big men (Memphis, etc.).

I also disagree that we need a substantial improvement at 4 to win a championship. We won a title with Chucky freaking Brown starting at 4.

 

If you read certain other threads, I haven't ignored Asik as a backup at all. This thread is mostly about them playing together.

Two years ago watching the Bulls, I saw Asik & Gibson finish a lot of games in place of Noah & Boozer. It was embarrassing (for the Bulls, Noah & Boozer). If they are to contend, we have to hope Dwight plays so well the Rockets can't afford to sit him during non-blowouts. This would make Asik a very expensive 15 mins/game player, albeit the best backup C in the NBA by far.

Remember, the basis for this whole discussion is the Rockets' weakness at PF. This is the reason Asik has to go. I have no faith in D-Mo, T-Jones or Greg Smith being a legit starter the team can rely on in the playoffs. If it weren't for that, I'd be in favor of keeping Asik unless someone made an offer Morey couldn't refuse.

 

Where exactly are the Rockets weaknesses? Does the need for a power forward outweigh the horrible defense the Rockets displayed when Asik was off the floor? What exactly do the Rockets need from the power forward? Probably not scoring. Rebounding also is not a priority since everyone else in the starting lineup rebounds well. Defense? Is that the top priiority?

 

agreed having a dominate defensive Centre on the court for 48 minutes a game is a better situation than having an above average PF, when Dwight comes out what do we have? Smith at the 5 again, Camby maybe? I'd rather roll with Omer and D12 and have just a average to below average starting PF

 

What you're missing is that this will happen right after Orlando trades Dwight to the Rockets and Romney wins the 2012 election. You're just not putting it in the right context.

 

On offense next to Dwight, with perimeter guys like Harden, Parsons & Lin and in McHale's run-run-run system, a PF needs to (1) be mobile, (2) able to run & fill lanes on the break, (3) hit mid-range jumpers [3-pointers are a plus], (4) draw his defender away from the basket to clear room for Dwight in the post and for Harden/Lin to attack the rim, (5) have good hands and be able to punish the defense when he's open.

Assuming Dwight returns to form as the best help-defender in the NBA, defense isn't the biggest priority at PF. Orlando had a top notch defense with softies like Turkey-Glue and Rashard Lewis defending PFs. In today's NBA, there are even fewer big PFs that are scoring threats. For the exceptions, this is where Greg Smith could be a key guy on the team. IMO, he's the most talented PF on the roster right now and will be the starter until a deal gets done.

Rockets have to think about half-court offense in the playoffs. That's how they will lose to elite teams in a 7-game series. This is when the need for a competent PF will outweigh the need for a backup because Dwight's minutes will go up.

To make something clear: With or with Asik, Rockets will rack up the wins in the regular season. That isn't the issue. A championship run next June is what I'm after.

 

I do not overvalue our players. You overestimate how many teams would realistically be in the hunt for a player like Melo. Most teams are automatically out. Because Melo wouldn't re-sign with them or agree not to opt out. That eliminates about 25 teams right there. Now you're left with around 4-6 teams that could realistically trade for Melo. And I might just be exaggerating that number. When you understand that the market for teams that could trade for Melo and have a chance to keep him is JUST THIS SMALL then you understand better what we have to offer in relation to the others.

 

What you've described is every stretch 4 Morey has attempted on this team, including our current youngsters. PPat, Morris, Delfino, Jones(would fit everything you said if he grows as a player), and DMo. It's not that difficult to find one of these players. If worse comes to worst, as in DMo and Jones both flame out, Morey can certainly get some tweener offense-oriented PF without having to trade Asik. Because these players aren't that rare.

Rockets half court offense in the playoffs will be a mixture of Howard post-ups and P&Rs. Howard's career playoff average is 20/14 on 60% shooting. As long as there's a floor-spacing 4, there's no reason why the Rockets won't succeed in the half court with Harden and Howard combo.

But given his injury, if you really want Orlando's Howard in the playoffs, then the best way to get there is having a superb backup to manage his minutes.

 

I suppose in Rondo's case you could come up with different possible trump scenarios. But none significant.

In a player pending free agency, such as Melo or Bosh it's much more difficult for teams to trump offers UNLESS they know the player they are trading for is willing to stay there and willing to give up their opt out.