Three-strikes policy: Egypt military fires AGAIN on unarmed civilians and now reporters.

Erdogan condemned the harsh reaction to the Muslim Brotherhood's violence and terror. Funny because just a few weeks ago, he himself brutally ended dissent. Islamist Erdogan is disingenuous, just like Northdork Intern.

 

I have posted sources saying that guns were fired from the Muslim Brotherhood against the police. Does it occur to you that this might have contributed to the death count? Did the Gezi park protesters torch 40 churches and murder many people, like the Muslim Brotherhood did?

 

This.

CASE CLOSED

 

Northside Intern trying to equate the peaceful protesters of Gezi Park to the Muslim Brotherhood terrorists. Laughable. Obviously, the reaction to peaceful protesters MUST be different to that to terrorists who are firing guns at you and who are using children and women as human shields while doing so, and who are murdering children, women and other humans who believe something different than they do, and who burn churches. The military has probably gone overboard in this, but this is what the Muslim Brotherhood thugs wanted.

 

"Peaceful civilians" from the Muslim Brotherhood firing an AK-47. No wonder the police had to strike back.

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"Peaceful Civilians" of the Muslim Brotherhood firing machine guns from rooftops at actual civilians, and at the police.

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terrific Article about the real issue in Egypt....

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/16/world/middleeast/working-class-cairo-neighborhood-tries-to-make-sense-of-a-brutal-day.html?hp

CAIRO — A man who sold eggs said the army had waited too long to attack the Islamists. An accountant said the police had stormed the protests with an efficiency he had not seen in years.
In the working-class neighborhood of Imbaba on Thursday, a teacher, Mohamed Abdul Hafez, said the hundreds of Islamists who died the day before mattered little to him. “It’s about the security of the country,” Mr. Hafez said.

Egypt seemed more divided than ever after a brutal day of violence here that left hundreds of people dead. Supporters of the ousted president, Mohamed Morsi, mourned those killed, vowed revenge, planned their next moves. Many other Egyptians, though, directed their ire at the protesters who had camped out in the streets for weeks. For them, what occurred made sense.

“It was necessary,” Akmal William, standing in his auto-detailing shop on Talaat Harb Street, said of the raid by soldiers and police officers. “They had to be strict.”

Witnesses described a disproportionate, ruthless attack. Condemnations came from human rights advocates, a few Egyptian political figures, and from abroad. But many Egyptians viewed things differently, focusing on what they said were continuing threats from Mr. Morsi’s supporters, who were frequently referred to as terrorists. In their view, the army was the only force standing in the Islamists’ way.

Between the parallel realities, others were torn between the claims of the security forces of violent demonstrators who threatened the country — a view parroted by the state news media — and what they heard from Islamist friends about how the battle on the streets had unfolded on Wednesday morning.

In Imbaba, a neighborhood that seems to catch all the nation’s political currents in its congested alleyways, many people regretted the bloodshed. But they asserted that the alternative was worse. The Muslim Brotherhood, Mr. Morsi’s political party, was holding back the country with endless sit-ins and protests, many said. And the longer the army waited to act, the weaker Egypt seemed to them.

That conviction only grew stronger amid reports about Islamist violence, including the storming of a government building in Giza early Thursday. Mr. William, a Coptic Christian, was preoccupied by a spate of attacks on churches and Christian homes across the country, a spasm of collective scapegoating by some of Mr. Morsi’s supporters.

“They won’t go easily,” he said, adding that churches “are still being burned.”

Some people seemed to buy the relentless propaganda of the state news media, saying they had come to realize that the Brotherhood was actually the mysterious “third party” blamed by successive Egyptian leaders for all manner of evil deeds. At least one man just seemed anxious to heap praise on the country’s leaders, irrespective of their actions, as if Egypt were still frozen in its authoritarian past.

Others had arrived at their own conclusions, and explained in detail why the government had been forced to act against Mr. Morsi and his supporters, regardless of the consequences.

“I don’t like conspiracy theories,” said Ahmed Mustafa, 37, an accountant who sat in a cafe. “I’m against violence. I gave my vote to Morsi, and he disappointed me. They did things their way, and it was a false way.”

The authorities acted responsibly on Wednesday, he said, moving during daylight, so that “everything was obvious,” rather than under the cover of darkness.

“We delegated them to fight terrorism,” he said of the military. “And the Brotherhood wanted to show themselves as victims.”

Openly, people praised the army, which deposed Mr. Morsi on July 3 and has remained Egypt’s leading power ever since. More quietly, some expressed doubts about the rush to support the military’s assertion of its authority after two and a half years of popular protests aimed at transforming Egypt from an authoritarian government to a democracy.

“I don’t know who is right and who is wrong,” said Hassan Mahmoud, who works in a bed store. “Some say the Brotherhood was shooting. Some say they were being shot.”

Reflecting the confusion of many Egyptians, he added: “We don’t know the truth. And we don’t know where we are heading.”

A woman named Israa, who asked that her last name not be published because of fears of retribution, said that Egyptians had become “brainwashed.”

“This is not us,” she said. “It’s not Egypt at all. We are not happy with death and blood.”

She was not a supporter of Mr. Morsi, who critics said had seemed to grow more feckless by the month. But there was no solution to be found in the violence, and Egypt’s growing comfort with nationalism, she said.

“We have this thing about us, that the Egyptian Army is untouchable,” Israa said.

“So many want Egypt ruled with an iron grip,” she said. “No one cares that leaders might be lying to the people. People are in a coma.”

In an alleyway nearby filled with children, Mohamed el-Mehdi, 30, took his infant son for a stroll before the curfew that Egypt’s leaders imposed after the fighting on Wednesday.

The breakup of the sit-ins had been a surprise, he said. Egyptians were expecting they would be dispersed more peacefully. “We were expecting skirmishes,” he said. “All of a sudden there was gunfire.”

Between the self-interested, unverified claims coming from all sides, “the facts are not clear,” Mr. Mehdi said.

“We want reconciliation, but we can’t reconcile with a group that we’re all calling to be banned,” he said, referring to the Brotherhood. “Most of Egypt is divided. And their differences are playing out in the streets.”​

 

There is no question that the attack on the MB sit ins were bad. And there was absolutely no reason to have gun fire. But the MB is trying to shift a political argument into a religious one. Trying to galvanize support from Muslims throughout the country. The truth is the MB really wants a new Iran, and have the military leaders disposed of...This situation can really escalate quickly...

 

More "protectors"/"civilians"/"pedestrians" of the Muslim Brotherhood at work, spreading the love for the religion of peace.

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But yeah, Northside Intern says the police should have just let them fire machine guns at civilians, block roads, burn churches, continue to terrorize the people. Because Northside Basement Keyboard Warrior said so, and Sunni Muslim Extremist adeelsiddiqui agreed!

 

By the way, the official position of the UAE is to side with the Egyptian government (the military). Might explain that Mathloom hasn't shown up in this thread to rant, all high and mighty.

 

Pragmatics are the entire point of debate. You can't argue for actions that are completely unfeasible and not expect to raise eyebrows, no matter how noble your premise. Your principles to human rights will have to find a middle ground with a solution that isn't diplomatic suicide. As I've said in numerous threads, I'm a humanist, and I would prefer to live in a borderless world without tribal, nationalistic or religious conflict, but I also have to live with the fact that my opinions don't have any bearing on the world as it is. Conflict is an everyday reality for me, and I have to live with it and understand and confront it it like a rational adult.

Egypt isn't some faraway place I see on TV. It's a few hours from where I live, and my investment in it's stability, safe to say, is probably more than most of the posters in this thread. I used to go there several times a year, and now I can't even visit my friends. As we speak, Northern Sinnai is a human, drug, and arms trafficking haven. Al-Quada affiliates are using is as staging base for rocket attacks into Israel, and Sudanese and Eritrean refugees are being robbed, raped and killed. And that's not to mention the trouble being caused by Hamas there. It's a human rights crapsack, but despite this going on for years, (and worsening under Morsi), no one cares much.

The army made it clear it has no designs on taking over the government -- that's why it appointed a civilian head. Besides the rioting, it has a lot of serious security problems to deal with beyond the scope of any first world country. I don't think you are deliberately cherry-picking your causes, but if you come posting in support of the rights of Egypt's version of the 700 Club on steroids, you can expect me to do my best to inform you of a much grander and complex picture that doesn't have the easily reached solutions you think can be achieved.

Egypt's future is in its own hands, as New Yorker as said, the revolution will need to take it's course with as little meddling as possible from the outside. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is taking shelter under the neo-con tent.

 

If you follow Arab media, it's very partisan. UAE + Saudi Arabia support the liberal/secular/military side and have pledged tons of money to the state post-MB to keep it afloat. Al-arabiya is funded by these same two states, so don't expect much sympathy for the MB there.

Al-Jazeera, on the other hand, is Qatari, and the royal family is very sympathetic to the MB, so there's not a lot of love for the Egyptian government there.

It's kinda like MSNBC and Fox News.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is dangerous because they believe they can justify their violent actions through Islam. It's a disgusting misinterpretation of their religion