‘47 Percent Negro’: Anti-Obama Protest Turns Racist In Phoenix

I never said you did, just that I wouldn't really care either way.

No, OP posted the article with the intent to carry on the slander that Republicans/conservatives/TPers are racists. If that is not the intent, then why bother posting it? The article is not otherwise newsworthy. OP is also a habitual race-baiter, and I have seen him obsess and sling baseless racism accusations at other conservatives on a regular basis. That is why he is on my ignore list.

What part if "I don't whether you think I am a racist or not" do you not understand? It's pretty straightforward.

Again, you guys need to make EVERY SINGLE FREAKING THREAD about me, personally. I can say over and over, over and over, over and over, that I don't personally care, and point out that you guys have confirmed my analysis of the Narrative of the racist Republican/conservative/TP in nearly every post, but... It's still all about me?

The Narrative is that Republican/conservative/TPers are motivated by racism, and not opposition to policy. You and everyone else here has confirmed it by repeatedly claiming that racism is a strong motivator in these groups. You guys have confirmed it with nearly every post in this thread.

No, you haven't made that clear. You made it especially unclear when you posted a story about a bogus poll purporting to show that TPers are racist.

You didn't even have time to read it before posting this. Spare me.

Read the goddamned counterargument articles before commenting on them, please. This is the same as in the Manning thread. I put the freaking evidence right under your nose and you simply ignored it because you were too lazy to read what was posted.

 

LOL oh I love hearing the " you blacks are just as racist, if not more racist than us" arguments.

It makes me

 

As opposed to the "you whites are just as racist, if not more racist than us" arguments."

Please try and follow along. The rest of the class can't afford to stop everything just for you.

 

This thread was never about you until you decided to make it about you by claiming an article about something that happened in AZ was an inult to you.

I did read it, and none of it changes or contradicts the facts from the poll. This is from one of the articles you posted.

So your rebuttal agrees that racists are over represented in the tea party but not a majority. That's what I claimed in my post when I brought it up. The only person claiming the narrative is that all tea party members, conservatives and Republicans are racist is you. Nobody who's posted articles or studies or anything made that the narrative. Only your claim.

Just to sum it all up neatly.

1. The only person claiming that the narrative is that all conservatives, tea party members, or Republicans are racist is you. Not one left leaning poster in this thread has made that claim.

2. I posted a study showing that racists are more prevalent among tea party supporters. Something you posted as a counter argument backed that up. Your counter arguments do refute the claim you've made up in your head that all tea party members are racist. But since nobody in this thread is making that claim, it serves no purpose for you to argue against it.

3. You're waging a great battle against an army of people claiming that all tea party members/conservatives/Republicans are racists. The detachment from reality comes from the fact that the only army of people making that claim are in your head.

Posting a study which was not countered by anything you posted is not claiming that all tea party members are racists. You don't like what the facts show in this case, so it seems like you are making the facts try and say something else so you can argue against it.

 

I defy you to find any post I have made in this thread where I said that what happened insults me.

If you actually read them then you have reading comprehension problems. The key takeaways would be this:

The endurance of racial stereotypes in this day and age is disturbing; but Tea Party supporters differ little in this regard from mainstream Americans... In other words, the Tea Party movement is mainly conservative -- which is hardly the stuff of headlines. That does not make it a haven for racists.

You and many others seem to equate conservative principles with racism. Opposition to expansion of the welfare state? RACISM. Opposition to spending on universal health care? RACISM. It also notes that the Tea Party is mostly white, which can, of course mean only one thing. RACISM. Right?

Er, no, the rebuttal does NOT argue that. As with the OP's article, you cherrypicked what you wanted to hear to make a false point. Let's see that entire paragraph, shall we?

None of the above definitively proves that Tea Party supporters are not more likely to be racist than other members of the population. Further research might well show that they are. Even if racists do turn out to be overrepresented among Tea Party members, it does not follow that the majority of Tea Partiers are racists or that racial concerns are a major motivation for the group. Overrepresentation should not be confused with domination. Survey data overwhelmingly show that concerns about the size of government and other economic issues are the main focus of Tea Party members.

Intellectual honesty is a prerequisite for productive debate, FB.

Which has been REPEATEDLY and POINTEDLY supported by nearly every single liberal who has posted in this thread. Is your counterargument to my claim about the Narrative really going to be "We don't think the TP/Republicans/conservatives are racist"? I think most of your fellow liberals would disagree.

They don't need to make that claim, they have verified it with their own posts. All I am doing is pointing out their unfounded bias, a.k.a. the Narrative.

No, you didn't. You posted an article about a that showed that very little if any actual bias. Most of the purported bias was attributed by commenters, who were projecting their own perceptions of what constitutes a bias. As I said, conservative ideas are often conflated with bias.

No, they did not. I'd like you to ACTUALLY read them, please, if you are going to pretend to make claims about them.

Uh... Are we even on the same planet here? I have NEVER made a claim that TP members are racist. My claim is that LIBERALS think that Republicans/conservatives/TPers are racists. I really, truly, am flabbergasted that you deny this. Find me ONE MSNBC commenter who has not insinuated such a claim. You won't find many on CNN either. The number of lib articles making this claim is too staggering almost for even google to handle. It is truly mindblowing that you would try and argue that this Narrative does NOT exist.

Oh... really? No one in this thread thinks that Republicans/conservatives/TPers are racists? Hmmm.... I'm going to click some red lines just for this one.

...How many times do we hear it's not about race, it's about policies and then five minutes later call him Hussein. At least these people have the courage to own their bigotry.

...Sad that people like this exist. We have a few on this board.

...Hated the chimp & Hitler crap thrown GWB's way during his tenure as well. Obama has gotten it worse, and it's impossible to deny the amount of racially-based jokes, pictures, cartoons, stickers, signs etc... made about him.
There are too many examples to write it off as "just a small minority of his detractors".

...I definitely don't think all Republicans are racist. Just about 1/3 of them. Only 1/3

...If you were to take ALL of the people in the US that ate white and that are racist. What percentage do you think would be democrat and what percentage Republican? Do we really think he's insinuating here that the Dems are more racist

...treeman, you have racists in your party. Not all republicans are racists, but there is a racist POS segment of the GOTP and Obama lit a fire under them. There is no denying this, although you will. Sure there are some racists in the GOP, just as there are some in the Dem party, what's the point? We know what the point is: that racism drives opposition to Obama

...I'll agree with treeman that the implication of the OP is that the general conservative opposition to Obama is born of racism, and that's a serious charge to paint 40% of the couuntry with. But, obviously the people in this story are expressing bald-faced racism, and it is too common a story. It's not 40% common, but too common. That's not treeman's fault, and I'll respect him enough to not accuse him of blatant racism, but you gotta admit the overt racism is part of the mix of the objection to Obama by the conservative population. well, at least he agrees that I have somewhat of a point... But I'm still supposed to admit that racism is a significant factor driving opposition to Obama

...White pity party narrative says the perpetual race-baiter

...There are studies showing that more tea party members are racist than other political groups. That doesn't mean they all are... We could even extend the conversation to ask why Republicans don't come out and take a stronger stand against the racist members of their party, and how a Republican president put one in the civil rights division of the Department of Justice . Even then, that isn't calling you a racist, all conservatives racist or all Republicans racist. of course not ALL of them are racist, but your point is that there is a racism problem in the GOP/TP and that is what is driving opposition to Obama. THAT is the Narrative.

...But, make no mistake, the GOP definitely tried to push xenophobic buttons during the last two Presidential campaigns.

...It's a constant refrain from conservatives that they are opposed to Obama based on policy yet these same people are prone to racial and ethnic jabs, jokes, and comments about Obama. It's the same people that claim blacks vote for Obama due to race but whites vote on issues. It's an obvious and telling inconsistency that conservatives on this board are infamous for. Their refusal to acknowledge the role Obama's race plays into the behavior and comments of a wide swath of conservative Americans is telling... And this has nothing to do with the caliber of Obama's presidency, simply the manner in which many conservatives react with clear racial animus towards him and then have the audacity to deny it.

...The only thing that can be done is to wait for all the bigots to grow old and die off. Which bigots? The ones in the Dem party? Who are we talking about here?

...I don't know, I think it's always going to be around on some level. Just own it though

...Go to a tea party rally. And what am I supposed to see there, fchowd0311? I think the insinuation was that I am supposed to see a bunch of white racists, right? If not, then what?

...Nothing new here, a persistent failure to take responsibility for the perpetual racial commentary of Obama by conservatives and more victim card rhetoric.

...Keep defending racists in your strange quest to turn yourself into a victim. It's working brilliantly so far. Nobody is defending racists, I am defending the GOP/conservative/TP movement against the slurs you people keep throwing at it. I merely pointing out that the Narrative states that TPers/GOPers are racists, and that the Narrative is unfounded.

This stuff will continue. It is CLEAR that the libs here (and elsewhere) have fully bought in to the Narrative that conservatives/TPers/GOP are racist and that opposition to Obama is driven by racism. It's actually pretty silly for you to argue that that is not the case. As far as I can tell your argument is that no one believes that ALL of us are racists. Well, so? The Narrative doesn't claim that ALL of us are racists, just that a whole bunch of us are and that it's what is driving opposition. You and the rest of the libs seem to agree with that. Tell me I'm wrong.

There's that "ALL" word again. That word is not going to save your argument.

And that "army" has paraded itself all over our TVs and airwaves for several years now, and made a march right through this very thread.

Well, it was countered by what I'd posted, which you would know had you ACTUALLY read it. And while your statement is true in the absolute sense (but only with that "ALL" word again), your point in posting the article is to lay the claim that the TP is more racist than everyone else and that racism is a driving force in the movement. If that was not your point in posting the article, then exactly why DID you post it?

"Facts"? What "facts" are you talking about? Your poll that purports to show that TPers are more racist than Average Joe, but which doesn't actually show any such thing? Or did you have some other "facts" in mind?

 

i'm loling all over this. there's like a friggin 20 page rebuttal LOL.

I don't get it, it'd make sense if this wasn't the same guy who hadn't spouted some nonsense about all Democrats being traitors. it's like he built a strawman---and the worst implications of the strawman are that people are being billed with a broad brush---which he does on a frequent basis.

as it is, this has to be the most extreme case of being willing to dish out the heat, and not being willing to take it---even imagined cases.

 

Awww he tried to make a comeback.

It was a terrible one but at least he tried.

How adorable

 

I'm just going to a couple of things. Most of the post examples you put all seem to agree that not all Conservatives/Republicans/TPers are racist.

You can pretend that the poll didn't find TP supporters are more resentful of race than others, but that isn't accurate. Like I said from the beginning, showing the Tea Party to be more racist isn't saying all tea party members are racist.

I'll also use this argument to counter your all Democrats are traitors line. For the record, I'm not a Democrat and didn't vote for Obama in the most recent election, thought I did in 2008.

But one of the reasons Iraq didn't have WMD's when we invaded was because of a Democrat who made the decision to bomb and destroy them. It proved effective. Yet he was accused by Republicans of wagging the dog.

A Democrat made the decision that took out Osama Bin Laden. A Republican took his eye off the ball in the previous administration.

Yet you want to label all Democrats traitors. You're just not being rational.

 

So, are you telling me that there is NOT a perception or belief that the Republican party/conservatives/TPers are racist, and that it is racism that drives opposition to Obama, and not genuine policy disagreements?

Really, I want to hear the liberals say this. I want to hear the liberals here say "No, the Tea Party isn't racist". I want to hear "No, the Republican Party isn't racist". I've been fishing for that the entire thread, but I don't hear it. What I hear repeatedly is simply confirmation that yes, the liberals here (and everywhere, really) DO think that the Republican party/conservatives/TPers are racist, and that they DO believe that it is racism driving opposition to Obama. Over and over.

You guys can deny it all you want, but your own posts repeatedly prove me right, both in this thread and in MANY others. It's ALL OVER the D&D. Hell, it's pretty much just accepted wisdom on this site that conservatives are racists.

You guys can try and make it about me personally if you want, whatever. Again, I couldn't care less what you think of me. The fact that you need to focus on me personally just tells me that you can't actually deny what I am saying, that you can't actually prove me wrong in my assertion.

So, let's hear it, liberals. "The Tea Party is not racist. Racism is NOT the driving force behind opposition to Obama." Say it if you believe it - if you can. No "buts", no "well, not ALLs", that is a cop out.

If you can't, then I am right.

FB:

There you go again with that ALL word. I am talking about the party and the movement, not every single individual. You are trying to use the ALL word to bail yourself out here, and it is not going to work.

Of Course there are racist individuals within the Republican and Tea Parties. There are also racist individuals within the Democratic party. So what? No one on my side of the aisle is trying to paint the party or the entire liberal movement as racist simply because a few of its members and believers are racists. Yet your side routinely does this to conservatives. This entire thread is designed to elicit a "look at how racist the TP is" response. That is this thread's entire purpose. And it did get just such a response from quite a few of the liberals here.

The liberal argument (the Narrative) is that there are so many racists in the Republican party and the TP in particular that they are driving the opposition. You yourself posted an article about a bogus poll purporting to support this notion. You can't post that crap and then turn around and tell me that you DON'T think that racism is driving it - that is WHY you posted the poll in the first place.

It did not find that at all. Lets look at some of the results:

When read the statement that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites," 73 percent of the movement's supporters agreed, while only 33 percent of people who disapproved of the Tea Party agreed.

Er, so believing that if blacks work harder then they can be just as well off as whites is racist? Uh, OK. I interpret this as meaning that TPers believe (as do I) that blacks are equally capable of succeeding if they simply work hard, just as whites have to do to succeed.

Asked if blacks should work their way up "without special favors," as the Irish, Italians, and other groups did, 88 percent of supporters agreed, compared to 56 percent of opponents.

OK, so believing that certain racial groups should not receive special favors simply because they belong to a particular racial group is racist? Uh, OK. I interpret that as a preference against handing out special favors based on race. To me this is the opposite of racism.

Tea Party supporters were more likely to believe that "the Obama administration favors blacks over whites" and that "too much has been made of the problems facing black people."

So, uh, believing that an administration whose justice department refuses to prosecute high profile crimes against white people and that refuses to investigate allegations of voter fraud when it involves minorities has favors blacks over whites is racist? Uh, OK. All this tells me is that TPers pay closer attention than Average Joe to what this administration actually does.

In every single one of these findings the only way to construe racism is to attribute the observers' own biases about what constitutes racism upon the results. As I said earlier, you guys love to conflate conservative ideas with racism.

I think it's time to go back to basics. From Dictionary.com:

Racism:
rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Using this definition there is no reasonable way to construe the results of the questions asked in the poll as racist - at least, not unless you are going to apply your own biases to the interpretation of the results.

Well, that's not what I said, but whatever. Here is what I said to Deckard:

I do firmly believe that the Dem leadership knows EXACTLY what they are doing and have a clearly defined goal, and that it involves destroying traditional America and remakiing it into something more like Europe. I believe that many liberal elites share this vision. I also believe that most of the rank and file don't understand or refuse to believe/see what's going on because it is easier to simply convince one's self that they are being compassionate, fighting for the little man, etc - all the lies that the party's leadership has fed them for the past few decades.

I don't consider that rank and file to be traitors or evil. I consider them dupes.

So I don't consider ALL Democrats to be traitors, but I'll concede the point simply so that we don't have to double-dog derail this clusterfark of a thread.

*Sigh*... Please go and read the Duelfer report. This statement is not remotely true but I am not going to turn this thread into another ridiculous argument over Iraq. Educate yourself, please.

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004

Er, that Republican authorized the enhanced interrogation techniques that led to Osama Bin Laden. Had the Dems had their way and those enhanced techniques been forbidden then we never would have found him. Obama benefited from Bush's policies, and was simply lucky enough to be the guy in charge when the opportunity to get OBL materialized.

Any POTUS would have made the same decision. That is not to knock Obama on it - he deserves credit for it - just pointing it out.

And you apparently have reading comprehension issues. But I am not going to argue about the traitor thing here. One ridiculous argument at a time, please.

So, it comes back to this...

I want to hear the liberals here say "The Tea Party is not racist. The Republican Party is not racist. Racism is NOT the driving force behind opposition to Obama". Say it if you believe it. You can even copy and past from my post.

 

So, uh, believing that an administration whose justice department refuses to prosecute high profile crimes against white people should read "against black people"... Sometimes the brain and fingers aren't synced.

 

How can we make personal attacks against you -- you are a military hero that served our country during a dark period in our history.

 

so treeman here labels all liberals and dems as traitors/socialist....and then accuses all liberals of all labeling the tea party/right wingers as completely racist?

I don't get that, I just said it was 1/3 of the tea party/right wingers was racist. I think treeman your math skills are off.

 

wut

yeah, the forum denizens here are too busy being traitors, and disassembling America to respond to your query.

The Democrats that is.

The Republicans are too busy being racist, and having questionable taste in t-shirts.

 

Odd. No serious replies? It's almost like no one can say it. C'mon, it's not that hard.

"The Tea Party is not racist. The Republican Party is not racist. Racism is NOT the driving force behind opposition to Obama"

 

Yup, that's why half my news feed on facebook is full of political posts about "Hussien" Obama or the Kenyan President or the Islamic extremist President. Bro, 90% of my friends are veterans I served with. You and I know the veterans tend to be hard core right wingers. I know how you think. I have been surrounded by plenty of others that think exactly like you. No matter what you say it won't change the fact that a large portion of the right wing cannot stand that there is a black man as president.

 

So, there's one vote for "The right wing is racist, and their opposition is due to racism, and not policy issues". More or less, right?

And apparently these racists think exactly like me. So, I'm paranoid thinking that people here are calling me racist? Ah, whatever, like I said I really don't care, but I do like getting confirmation.

So, any more?

 

And I just have to point out...

""Hussien" Obama or the Kenyan President or the Islamic extremist President."

None of those are actually racial in nature. Hussein is his actual middle name, the Kenyan thing is a reference to his questionable place of birth (which I do not subscribe to, BTW), and the "Islamic extremist" thing probably refers to his penchant for sympathizing with Islamic extremists - and has nothing to do with race.

Again, you guys conflate everything with racism. Everything is racial to you. And you project that upon others, particularly your political enemies. It is simply a way of silencing oppositional discourse. It's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying "racistracistracistracist" in the middle of a debate. Once it happens there is no possibility of further rational debate. The policy issues are never discussed. By design.

 

1. If Blacks worked harder they wouldn't be just as well off as whites according to studies that have shown if a black person without a criminal record and equal resume to a white person who has a criminal record, the white person will be hired first.

If a resume has a black sounding name and an equal resume has a more WASP name, the black sounding name resume doesn't even get called into interview as much.

There are also studies that show blacks are charged a higher interest rate when they have the same credit score as whites.

So there are facts that show the playing field isn't equal and in fact there are cases where actions are needed to make it more even for African Americans.

The fact that calling that out is resented more by tea party does indeed show something about their disposition to blacks.

Actually there isn't a definitive link to show enhanced interrogation techniques is what led to information where OBL was, or that any information gotten through enhanced interrogation couldn't have also been obtained though using the army manual on interrogation methods.

As for the Duelfor report. I studied up on that at the time right wingers were routinely trying to use it to justify all sorts of things.

Here's a brief line from CNN about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.report/index.html