Support for repealing Obamacare plunges to an all time low.

Unions do have some issues with the bill, primarily because they want the ability to double-dip and abuse the system and don't have it. But did you even read the link you posted? It has nothing to do with Obamacare - it has to do with GOP legislation that has been proposed in the House:


“I am a federal employee and one of your constituents,” the letter begins. “I am very concerned about legislation that has been introduced by Congressman Dave Camp to push federal employees out of the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and into the insurance exchanges established under the Affordable Care Act (ACA).”


Lawmakers and their aides had an issue due to a bizarre loophole that got added into the bill, thanks to an amendment by Senator Grassley who was trying to kill the bill with a poison pill. It wasn't an exemption from Obamacare - it was exemption from a silly rule that made no sense and was specific to Capitol Hill employees. Both parties agreed it was stupid and it has been fixed.

 

Stop it Major! Yer killin' me!

 

What you've done here is completely strip this tree fellow of all his clothes. I mean, you totally destroyed the guy.

It's too bad he is going to run away and never reply to this. There is no reply. You just called him out as either being totally ignorant or simply a troll that is spewing garbage intentionally.

Too bad it won't stop him from throwing his nonsense in other places.

 

Excellent post, Major, but like I told Judo, good luck. I know people in "the real world" just like treeman, and no amount of logic, reason, or facts will move them from their opinion. A couple are old friends of mine, guys I still consider friends simply from knowing them for over 40 years, having little in common with them now besides some shared history. They don't want to hear the truth. They aren't interested in the truth. They've decided that the crap spoon fed to them from various biased sources can't be wrong, because it jives with the twisted ideas they developed over years of interaction with others that left them largely changed people, and they don't even realize that they have changed.

So what happens is that you see little of these people, your friends gone round the bend, because if you are like me, when they spout their crap at you yet again, and they invariably do, if someone is like me, you stand there, again, and tell them, again, how wrong they are, and all it comes to is a waste of time, energy, and emotion. I get upset attempting to converse with someone who has essentially become a stranger, and it is always a sad experience, one best left avoided.

 

Oh, let's see, why would a person such as me possibly think that the Democratic Party has moved further to the left than last century? Hmmm...

Barack Obama, the most liberal senator in that body during his senate tenure, is the leader of the party. His history of hobnobbing with radical leftists such as Bill Ayers and his wife, and he admits in "Dreams of my Father" that he attended socialist conferences in Brooklyn. The man has openly discussed his desire to move us to a single payer system, although during election years that gets flushed down the memory hole. He openly pontificates about how we need to be more like the Euro socialist states. Hillary Clinton, by no means a centrist, was made to look too far to the right to the base in the 2008 primaries.

Nancy Pelosi, one of the most liberal congresswomen in the House, was your standardbearer when you had control of the House.

The Democratic party has become the party of environmental extremism. A good chunk of its base would be perfectly happy if we all had to ride bikes to work and live in mud huts.

The Democratic party has become the party of atheism and opposition to Christianity.

The Democratic party has become the anti-second amendment party and is fairly open about it in all but the red states.

The Democratic party is the party of abortion.

Moderates such as Joe Lieberman are routinely chased out of the party.

There is no question that it is the party of big government (although the Republicans haven't been good on that score for nearly two decades either). The party advocates expansion of entitlement and welfare rolls.

Obamacare is, by Obama's own admission, simply a necessary first step on the road to single payer. And yes, Major, I am aware that some (not all) Republicans and Heritage supported an individual mandate during the 1990s. They did it to offer an alternative to Hillarycare, but that still doesn't make it sound policy - or consistent with conservative principals.

The Senate has not passed a budget since before Obama's election so that it does not have to be held accountable for the unprecedented and massive spending increases that have taken place since they took power, and so that they can run the government with CRs without having to actually cut spending. The sequestration "cuts" are peanuts, and overall spending still rose. The only solution they see is to raise taxes, which r****ds growth.

Where are the Scoop jacksons? Where are the Harry Trumans? You can't even field any Bill Clintons anymore, because they are considered too right-wing. The only president that I can think of in the last century that is possibly more insanely leftist than the current president would be Woodrow Wilson. You don't see JFKs anymore who offer massive tax cuts in order to stimulate private sector activity; that would be unheard of with the modern Democratic party. The closest you get are a temporary gimmick cut of a percentage or two on your SSI taxes.

Meanwhile, the Republican party runs Mitt Romneys, George Bushes, and Bob Doles. You r****ds sit here and complain that the Republican party runs whackos, but the truth is that every candidate since Reagan has been a moderate centrist, by no means conservative. Hillary Freaking Clinton, a woman who is undeniably a statist and feminist, would be the most right-wing candidate who could make the ticket in your primaries nowadays, and she doesn't crack the center.

I voted for Clinton in 1996. I used to be a Democrat. And then I stopped doing drugs and grew up. I am amazed that you guys, who have had 10 years to wake up and smell the coffee since we used to debate this stuff, have STILL not figured out what's going on. You have completely bought the media garbage hook, line and sinker. You guys are in complete denial and are absolutely full of it.

How is it possible to have a rational policy debate with people who will not even admit what they are? Call me what you want but at least I will tell you that I am a conservative Christian who believes in the Founding principles of this country. I am not going to try and BS you into thinking I'm a centrist or something. I know what I am. How can there be an honest debate with people who either don't know or won't truthfully admit what they are?

There can't.

 

How can there be an honest debate with a chickenhawk like you? Where are those WMDs you were scaring us about? You need to go back into hiding.

NO SHAME

 

We can't have a reasonable debate because you believe in crap like this. How can we have a debate with people who create these false realities of Christian oppression in the U.S. How silly of you to believe that atheism is so widespread in the left. I wish it was but do you even honestly believe that Obama would even pass the Democratic primaries in 07 if he announced he was an atheist. Christian oppression... ****ing please. Christians are so oppressed in this country that it is literally impossible to be the head of state of this nation without being one.
How exactly has the Democratic party shifted farther left with the second amendment? There was an actual assault rifle ban in the 90's. The right has pushed the gun debate in the U.S. so far right that even debating about tougher background checks is difficult let alone an assault rifle ban.
The Democratic party has always advocated women's rights to choose. I don't understand how that has been pushed farther left.
Environmental extremists??? You need a serious reality check bro.

Again your ONLY argument is the stupid and played out "x degrees of separation" bull that can paint any swinging dick a Muslim extremist/Communist/Black Panther member.

 

Chickenhawk?!? I actually went over there motherfu^ker. You are on ignore after this post.

And the WMDs WERE there, but Saddam had them destroyed and didn't bother telling anyone. His freaking loss.

You want to know one of the real reasons I despise Democrats and the Democratic party now? I will NEVER forgive them for what they tried to do to us in Iraq. They spent the nearly ENTIRE decade attempting to sabotage the war there for PURELY political purposes. They were perfectly willing to have us lose a war if it meant scoring political points and tainting Bush's presidency. They couldn't bear the idea of having a successful outcome in Iraq so they spent years moaning and wailing about things they knew NOTHING about, calling us fuking babykillers, rapists, all the while, Obama pulled us out too early and now Iraq is - predictably - unraveling. Al Qaeda is resurging and AQI is reconstituted because of it, and now we are going to reap the whirlwind. Why? To score political points at home.

I consider the Democratic party to be a party of traitors. Not all of the rank and file, there are plenty of well-meaning but deluded or naive people in the party, but the leadership most certainly has a plan that it not at all in line with our founding. It disgusts me that so many of you people don't see it, but I suppose it's easier to go with the flow and play with the cool kids rather than seriously evaluate what you believe.

 

Bravo. This is a wingnut work of art. More please.

 

You can't debate someone that substitutes his own paranoia for your positions. It's no wonder people here think you're nuts. It's because you are nuts.

 

thank god.

BWAWAHAHAHAH

comedy. pure gold. 'I swear Johnny saw it too mommy'

I consider the blood of 9/11 to be all over your hands. How much did you make from 9/11?? Hope it was worth it

SICK

 

Seriously bro, for a vet you really do get butt hurt by the words of a few Berkeley code pink hippies. The Iraq war was an unnecessary war. Don't let being apart of it force yourself into justifying it which seems like what you are trying to do. All the war accomplished was erupt civil war. What is really sad and ironic about the war in Iraq is how it turned into a war for WMDs to a war to fight Islamic terror that was somehow partly responsible for 9/11. To whoever believes this bullcrap such as treeman has no idea of the secular nature of Ba'athist Iraq led by Saddam. The invasion was a magnet for Muslim extremists from all over to flock over and join in on the fun.

 

It's amazing what guys like Glenn Beck have done. Just goes to show you that even with the internet, people will believe all sorts of crazy things.

 

Dude, didn't get to go over there? You're a former Marine, right? Anyone who has been over there knows that the line about the secularism of the Baath is total BS. They were only secular relative to the rest of the nutcases populating the region, but as you would know if you'd been there the country is by NO MEANS the least bit secular. It never was.

WMD were not the only reason for going into Iraq, it was merely the most discussed one. Other relevant reasons included Saddam's persistent and long-established support for Islamic terrorists (research a place named Salman Pak for an idea of what was going on), and there was intelligence indicating links and communications between Saddam and AQ - later verified by documents found in Iraqi intelligence HQ. Post-911 there was NO WAY that we could have avoided it under the circumstances, which is why so many of your beloved Democrats voted in support of the AUMF before turning full-blown hypocrite and pretending they had opposed it all along.

But the main, long-term strategic goal was always to attempt to plant the seeds of future democracy, free markets, freedom of religion - western-style liberalism (not the Leftist garbage we call modern liberalism). The idea was to free them from the dictator (done), give them free elections (done), give them economic freedom (done), freedom of the press (done), freedom to choose and practice religion (done, and they chose sharia-light), and hope that it spread to the surrounding areas. Long-term it was decided that only the liberation of the Arab masses could combat the Islamist tide.

Well, that didn't turn out so well. We gave them freedom and they chose tribalism and Islamism. Not our fault. We did what we could. But had we followed the liberal prescription, Saddam would still be in power (there was zero chance of him being toppled internally), likely far more Iraqis would have died as a result as he killed on average 50K or so people a year during his reign, AQ would have a staunch friend and ally in Saddam... And you guys would probably be complaining about how GWB never did anything to help the Arabs.

So spare me. I know why we went over there and what we were trying to do there. Better than most.

 

zero chance of internal toppling looks kinda weak considering the regimes that fell in the region after.

Because, you know, giving the freedom is REALLY what everybody is after.

must make you sizzle that Bradley Manning ended up giving more freedom than Bush's war.

 

...wait, I just checked the title, how in the hell did this thread become a defense, of all things, the Iraqi war?

*******.

 

You sure about that? Since WMDs was the fear you were selling at the time. A 2 second google search reveals chickenhawking from treeman like this from 2002:

or this:

Nice invoking the nukes. I can hear dubyas voice now talking about mushroom clouds.

These are not my words but WMD man himself treeman.

9/11 NEVER FORGET and also REMEMBER it had NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ

 

NS, there would be no Arab Spring had we not deposed Saddam. The rest of the Arab world saw those purple fingers and decided they wanted some, too, which was the original intent.

Didn't work out so well in hindsight.

But yeah... it's pretty derailed at this point. The last couple of pages have mentioned Obamacare maybe twice.

I don't think there's anything really left to debate.

 

I've been to Afghanistan, not Iraq. And...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/18/opinion/iraq-war-women-salbi

 

Many years ago treeman fought long and hard to convince all of us about Iraq's WMD's. When they weren't found he fought long and hard to convince everyone that they were sneaked into Syria. Now that the war has been a complete disaster he's back to convince us how he was right all along. :grin:

That is hi-larious!