True you don't get waved on through, but those hearings are done very quickly if there is imminent danger. In Snowden's case, I assume he has planned out how to do these things way in advance, and has new friends in embassies everywhere. Or, conditional passport I guess. Either way, I don't think anyone is going to hold him up since he can present evidence of US treatment of whistleblowers and those governments I doubt they would make a distinction between, say, Manning's case and Snowden's. Just personal speculation, I don't really have a good understanding of this other than I know people can travel almost instantly without a passport if they can show they're in imminent danger.
I don't criticize the US "instead". I am critical of the US in general. I'm not going to let circumstances in which I have no say stop me from being critical of American foreign policy, especially since it's part of the reason why I am in those circumstances.
Nobody knows the laws referred to because they're written in secret rulings by secret courts. Yay rule of law. This is what the government has deigned to be released, and only after Snowdon shone light upon this Administration. Government of the people, by the people, for the people---pssh. If you can't even have the dignity to show the people what is being done in their name, don't pretend like you want to be the "transparent" administration.
Not really. Russia considers Snowden stuck in the airport a headache but also sees granting him asylum as a way of embarrassing the US.
? A US citizen spoke truth about government abuse and has sought and gained asylum in Russia. It's like an unreal twist on Arkady Shevchenko.
Not the first leftist fool to take refuge in Moscow and discover how crappy such a life is, won't be the last.
I have not really seen anything to indicate Snowden is a "leftist", nor have I seen anything to indicate he wanted to end up in Russia. I believe he desired to end up in Iceland.
Russia doesn't really care that much whether Snowden is speaking the truth or not. They care that this helps them score PR points against the US. I doubt during the days of the Cold War whether they would've acted much differently.
Speaking the truth or not? The programs have been admitted and justified and just recently upheld in congress. Helps them score PR points? Well yeah, but so what? You think the US has a different motive? Would they have acted differently during the cold war? No, and neither would the US. ================== I don't understand your point. It's more like you're just stating the obvious. I'm not speaking about Russia's motives or altruism or anything because, like any country, their motives are selfish. I'm more interested in the US side of the equation, and how Snowden is being treated. It's ironic, given the history of US/Russian relations.
I am not denying what Snowden is saying is true. I am just saying it doesn't matter that much to Russia. That is fine that you are focused on the US side of things but that doesn't mean that Russia doing something that embarrasses and goes against US interest is something that is should be surprising or ironic. You appear to be ignoring the obvious about why Russia is doing this.
If it appears that way, such is not my intent. I think I explained that in my previous post. But it still should be head-shake inducing. A US citizen is fleeing political persecution for exposing government abuse...to Russia. Sure, Russia's motives are less than pure (again, this is not unique at all) but this is hardly grounds to ignore the implications.
This whole episode serves to underscore how Obama has weakened American standing in the world. He is a pathetically weak leader, and it's proven time and time again.
Except I don't think this is a case of the US being now so repressive that fleeing to Russia is a better choice. As you are well aware Russia, especially under Putin, is far more repressive than the US and also has it's own surveillance society. My own view of this that this isn't so much a principled statement of Snowden to show how repressive the US is but that he never really thought this through very well. I think he looked at China and then Russia as two global powers who have the clout and reason to protect him from the US government. If he was concerned about principle he should've gone to Iceland first and revealed what he knew instead of Hong Kong. Anyway if we are talking irony I find his statement about how the US doesn't respect international law while seeking shelter in Putin's Russia to very ironic. Regarding the Cold War comparison while the NSA didn't have the surveillance that it does now then the US government didn't hesitate to wiretap, surveil, detain and question citizens that were considered communist sympathizers or other radicals on the most spurious of reasons. Remember that was in the days that J. Edgar Hoover was keeping tabs on MLK. Compared to those excesses while the scope of the surveillance is wider now because of technology what was done in the 60's and 50's was far more intrusive. None of that is too say that what is going on now is OK but that I don't see that somehow the US is now the repressive state while Russia is the defender of personal liberty.
A good point. Just a nitpick, but Snowden chose Hong Kong to avoid extradition. Iceland was his end goal, but apparently you have to be in your home country to apply... Absolutely. The NSA was doing just as much illegal **** then as it is now.
Probably not worth a new thread but I think worth discussing. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...-could-cost-military-billions-pentagon-n46426 Snowden Leaks Could Cost Military Billions: Pentagon The Pentagon might need to spend billions to overcome the damage done to military security by Edward Snowden's release of classified intelligence documents, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told Congress on Thursday. And it might take two years to determine the extent of that damage, Army Gen. Martin Dempsey told a House Armed Services Committee hearing on the defense budget. "The vast majority of the documents that Snowden – Mr. Snowden – exfiltrated from our highest levels of security, the vast majority had nothing to do with exposing government oversight of domestic activities," Dempsey said in response to a question from Rep. Mac Thornberry, R-Texas. "The vast majority of those were related to our military capabilities, operations, tactics, techniques and procedures." Dempsey said a task force was determining precisely which military documents Snowden had and looking at ways to "mitigate the effects" of the material's release. "The mitigation task force will need to function for about two years, that's the magnitude of this challenge," Dempsey said. "And I suspect it could cost billions of dollars to overcome the loss of security that has been imposed on us." Snowden is accused of downloading thousands of classified U.S. intelligence documents while working at a National Security Agency station in Hawaii. A news report last fall said that Snowden persuaded fellow workers to give him their passwords, and a civilian NSA employee recently resigned after being stripped of his security clearance for allowing Snowden to use his personal log-in credentials, according to an agency memo obtained by NBC News. The material has resulted in revelations about British spy efforts in addition to those about U.S. agencies. Snowden went to Hong Kong last May and shared documents with journalists. After the U.S. charged him with espionage in June, he flew to Moscow and is still in Russia.
