The only position I can see the Lakers having a definite edge in is PG. Drexler in his prime would be able to hold Kobe. Shaq and Dream edge to Dream Barkley and Malone is almost a wash but edge to Malone Elie and EJ were a lot better than ppl think. And of course.. Bullard in his prime. Oh yeeeaaah. Edge Rockets.
Well at least we know where you stand TheFreak DonatasFanboy VBG Fefo You guys are allowed to believe Shaq was better than Dream. Your wrong, but hey, it's Not a crime. If you can't be persuaded by the facts, the only head to head match up in a championship series or the opinion of Robert Horry who played with each of them then there is nothing more i can do to convince you.
"your wrong." ok. I don't understand how a h2h breakdown of every play in the NBA finals isn't facts. Unless you don't realize that basketball is a 5 vs 5 sport. And sometimes winning a matchup doesn't mean winning a series. And that wasn't even Shaq's prime. Shaq only semi refined his offensive game later. It was an insane combination of size, speed and touch. Lebron James thinks Rudy Gay is an amazing player. I disagree. I dunno who's wrong there but I'll stick with my opinion against that of the best player on the planet.
Let's forget about the prime conversation and just focus on the actual question. I know one thing, the 97 Rockets were edged by an excellent Jazz team. And then the Jazz played a 70 win 97 Bulls team(easily top 10 team in history) a pretty tight series. Meanwhile the Lakers beat us 3-1(our team was very average), looked impressive against the Spurs after going down 0-2, beat the Timberwolves team(KG was MVP) but Cassell missed most of the series, and got their asses handed to them against the Pistons. That was pretty much a 5 game sweep. That performance alone makes me pick the Rockets. Both Shaq and Dream were in a similar place in their career but Dream played really well in the the 97 playoffs run and Shaq played ok in 04. 97 Barkley was much better than the 04 Malone(that's not even close). Kobe has an edge on Clyde and their PG play is better. However we had way better chemistry that year. Our team enjoyed playing together!
You're crazy for thinking that Lakers team was that good. They got absolutely dominated by the Pistons. The 97 Rockets would not have gotten dominated by anyone especially that 05 Pistons team. They had a ton of low post scoring. Dream, Barkley, Willis, and Drextler could score points in the paint all day long.
i dont believe shaq was better than hakeem, i said its pretty even, but shaq prime was imposible to stop. Shaq was more dominant and bigger than dream, dream was a better defender and could still score at will against shaq or any other center. But i cant believe peopple here think dream would make shaq look like crap, he couldnt do it on 1995 against a very young shaq, for sure he wouldnt do it against 2000 shaq. Dream is way ahead of shaq as a basketball player, but u got to take into account the fact that shaq was so strong and big, he could not be stopped by just 1 guy. Thats a fact, if not ask defensive player of the year Mutombo who got burned for 37 and 18 a game ( or something liek that) in the nba finals, just beacuse the sixers tried to play him 1 on 1.
I'm not debating it anymore. You think Shaq was better than Dream. That is your opinion. I think you are wrong. It's obvious that neither of us will persuade the other.
Who said Dream would make Shaq look like crap? I didn't. Shaq is top 5 center and HoF. I just think Dream was better and I made my case.
Ok finally. You said "you think I'm wrong." That's all I was hoping for. Initially when you were spouting your opinion as fact it was quite annoying.
Sorry dude, I can be a bit dramatic at times when I'm trying to make my point and I'm passionate about it. No offense meant
I don't know what you guys are debating here. The question was for 97 Dream vs 04 Shaq. Both which were not in their prime. Shaq's prime was from 2000-2002 but his younger year's were not too far from him prime-94-99 for example. Hakeem's prime was 92-95 but his younger years before that were impressive even though he was on ****ty teams for 5 of those 8 years. In 04 Shaq was on a downfall as the Pistons series clearly proved. In 97 Hakeem was on a downfall but made a nice run in the 97 playoffs. 16 games- 23.1 ppg on 59% FG- 10.9 boards 2.6 blocks 2.1 steals along with 3.4 assists. But Hakeem had already dropped off in 96 with health problems. Shaq averaged about 21.5 in 22 playoff games in 04 and was rebounding really well, but shot less than 45% from free throw line. Plus this was the year he started to become much less dominant. As far as primes go. If you focus on playoffs only. Take Shaq's first 11 years and Dream's first 11 years(over 100 playoff games each). We know Dream is a much more valuable defensive player, that's clear. But can you believe both average just over 28 ppg in that playoff stretch with Dream averaging just a little more. And also a little more than Lebron James as well. And believe it or not Hakeem's FG% is really close to Shaq's. His number's just go up from regular season to playoffs, while Shaq's go down. Not that it's a big deal, but Shaq also got to pad his stats against one of the worst finals teams in NBA history the 02 NJ Nets. Any dominant center would have put close to 35-40 a game against that team. Not including the NBA before the 80's, I have always felt the most dominant individual players were; 1.Mj 2.Dream 3.Shaq And now Lebron James is fighting to go past Magic and Bird. Kobe is a competitor and warrior with tons of team success(5 rings obviously) However his individual stats, and playoff stats do not put him in the same realm as these guys above him. To me that counts for alot. It's a huge sample size, and he played most of his career in a guard friendly league. His stats are not nearly as good as the above players. The same can be said for Tim Duncan.
Sorry you're right, my bad I missed that part. Then it becomes a much more difficult debate. Almost a pointless argument, because you can't judge team chemistry. At least you can back up opinions with some facts if you just use the actual teams in 97 and 04. I guess Payton is the big difference maker although he did go up against the horrendous Maloney and Threatt combo in 97 while in his prime. But Eddie Johnson, Sedale, and Kevin Willis in their primes are pretty damn productive. It's a lot more hypothetical then since these teams never existed. Having Willis to stick on Shaq and Malone is huge to help Barkley and Dream. But what era would they play in? New rules would help the Rocket's chances because it would give Sedale and Matt an easier time against Payton. No hand checks. Eddie Johnson has averaged more than 20 a game before. and Threatt was good for 15ppg and 7 assists for a couple of season. So now you have Maloney off the bench and Sedale starting. Our bench becomes nasty with 20ppg capabilities from Eddie Johnson and a Double Double Kevin Willis who can really helps with foul trouble. The Lakers bench in their prime is really just Fisher and Grant. I'll stick with the same answer because it's close, and the best closer on the court is The Dream.
