hmm I apologize but I can't reply well as I didn't understand whatyou were saying here. I only can reply that Bev is not a good fit with Howard. You can't know that or even if Lin would be more fit to be able to. Regardless of Lin or Bev playing Harden will be the main play maker as he should be.
If they go by last years stats over the last 3 months after Lin recovered they would choose him because he was the more efficient scorer. You are just looking at the years stats not taking into consideration that Lin came into the season injured. The last 3 moths of the season Lin showed a big improvement, did you watch the games? I agree with you that Beverley's does make a difference but his overall D is not way better than Lins. Did you watch the whole season?
Yes I watched every game except for during a 2 week period. I also have seen about every Rockets game for about 40 years now. This is a specious argument that is irrelevant and used when one gets flustered. I am used to it from Lin fan boys though. Bev also improved a lot by the end of the season. It is to be expected. I am also sure that Bev and Lin have been working to improve their skills and conditioning in this off season. This is also a specious argument and irrelevant. Look Lin does not have to improve a lot to improve his advanced stats. Lin is a smart guy and can use this to his benefit. He cuts his TO's by even one game and increase his scoring efficiency a bit by drawing a couple more fouls a game and/or his scoring average a tad then his stats look like gold and there is no argument about his usefulness. Simple really. By the same token Bev can do the same. Hopefully they both improve and we have a great competition at that spot. As a Rockets fan that would be awesome to me. As an aside though. Lin and Beverley by the end of the year played real well together on the floor. I was hoping we would continue to see it in the playoffs. It would have helped a lot. In fact it was some of the best guard play I seen all season by any team. If they both do improve and can display this again next year we will have a great time watching this no matter who starts.
can you help me understand it a bit better? why does chris paul have a higher tov% than russel westbrook, even tho cp3 is better ball handler/passer and averages 1 turnover less per game?
ok There are 4 factors in TOV%. It would be best to use google to read up on it. To make it simple Westbrook has Durant.
You have been watching for 40 years, that's good you have me beat, I've been watching them for 30 years. I may have been able to match your 40 but I didn't get to Texas until I was 21. I agree with you, I hope they both show improvement and we have great competition at that spot. I think the competition will force both of them to be better.
OK Not about beating you but just to let you know that I have been a homer my whole life in Houston and you threw out the tiresome throw away line about me not watching when I said something you didn't agree with. Great you are here. The most important part is you are now here. My wife has been here now for 4 years. She doesn't care for sports but indulges me in my fandom. She does think Parsons is cute. I also agree with you and that competition is important and fun to watch. I am excited about this team. Take care and God bless.
It's not a throw away line, though. I asked a similar question, cuz what you said sometimes didn't seem to match what happened in the games last year. Now, eveyrone is entitled to their own opinion, but if you say that Tracy Morgan is better looking than Will Smith, there's nothing with me asking if you've ever seen any of these two before. It wouldnt matter whether you've watched Tracy since his stand up days, cuz it doesn't change the fact that I felt that perhaps your opinions were uneducated, or if educated then misplaced. Just my opinion. You mention that Bev is the best best. I don't. Simple as that really. There are fans out there that advocate Lin as 6th man just cuz they want Lin to be a bench player, not for strategic reasons, and that's what irks me, the hate.
Bev is not the way better defender... When we learn at a young age, or teach kids proper defense from an early age, we talk about defensive spacing. I was always a quick guard and if you get up on me, I'm going to go by you nearly everytime or at least put you at an advantage from get go forcing you to trail me or bump me. Now, kids like TD and Bev are somewhat different, as they are wicked fast and wily, but it is not that surprising that they (even more so for Bev) pick up fouls at a ridiculous clip and that people blow by Bev much more than Lin. Just count them out, you'll see. I do for nearly every game wiht a pen and pad. I am a stats nerd and I like to keep track of my own stats during games in my 30 plus years of watching ball as well (You got me beat on that end as well). The point being, Lin is not a poor defender nor is Bev a great defender. He's a high energy defender but can't keep it up while avoiding fouling (almost as influential as causing fouls which imo are superstar qualities that nearly every superstar has putting the opposing team to be completely handcuffed) and being burnt by the same "quick" guards you complain Lin of getting burned by. That's why I asked if you watched the games, and that's also why I get surprised by those who seem more logical but misunderstand TD and Bev style defense as that of a starter. There are two types of coaches, those that despise turnovers and those that want players not to be fearful of turnovers. It's just logic when I tell you that if a pg doesn't attempt to create an offense out of nothing, his turnovers are going to be minimal, and will be a more efficient scorer as there is less burden to create. Conversely, those that create offense tend to be more turnover prone and less efficient. Those are indeed generalizations, but you don't just take stats such as TOV% or scoring efficiency (cherry picked at that) to make an argument for a player. Either way, Lin's advanced stats have always been good and last year as disappointing as it was was decent as well. Much more proven than Bev's. We shall see how they do. I just have a sneaking suspicion that the haters will continue to hate no matter what happens in the games, cuz noone can avoid getting burned here and there and noone can make every 3. But when Lin gets burned or stripped or misses a three.. Watch out. Sturm's coming.
Yeah, and maybe they were TD only fans at the beginning of the season. Or Shaun Livingston Only Fans. And maybe last year, they were all Baron Davis only fans. The Lin is a bench player/scrub meme has been around long enough for me to recognize that Lin is just going to be hated for one reason or another no matter how he plays.
It is neither specious or irrelevant, actually. Lin improved as the year went on, in large measure, because his knee and leg strength improved. So, it wasn't just "hey, he improved during the year." It was more along the lines of "this guy wasn't the same player, physically, as he was in New York for the first 4-5 months of the season in 2012-13." To know that, however, you have to have watched Lin in New York. That is, you have to have watched more than just the Rockets two years ago. I'm not saying you fall into this category, but I have seen many posters who do seem to fit this mold. It would be a specious argument to say that Lin simply improved last year, as many other players improve during a season. Once you factor in that he was overcoming the knee injury, however, Lin's improvement during the season becomes anything but specious. As far as Beverley's offensive efficiency and other numbers, it's important to recall that most of those figures came against backups -- including in the playoff series against the Thunder last year. I like Beverley a lot. I haven't seen anything, though, to make me think he's a better player than Lin at this time. Perhaps he can become better, but their respective NBA careers to this moment in time point to Lin being both better and having a better upside. There is nothing like this for Beverley, for example: http://nyti.ms/19prI0h If a similar analysis has been done for Beverley with a similar prognosis/comparison, I have yet to see it. Altogether then, I can in no way see Beverley being the "best bet" heading into next season. Things can change, though. We'll see how things look in training camp.
Lol When I played it was not to fear fouls but avoid stupid fouls. Also if you do foul make sure they don't make the basket. Many ways. I don't see many blow by Bev as I see them blow by Lin. I have seen Lin defend well if his spacing is good. I yell at the TV sometimes when I see him close in and I know what is going t happen. They are different defenders though. Bev seems to get into his opposing players head more. Sometimes that is good but can give the man more 'incentive'. Lin has bad lateral movement but that can be improved and hopefully he does. I do like tight defense though and Bev does have that.
OK Ot they could be like me on a couple of other boards where the Lin fan boys have their circle jerks constantly. It has gotten tiresome and I just push their buttons constantly. I have gotten where I would rather Lin to be traded so we can enjoy our whole team again and chat about all the players. To have said such hateful stuff about the coaches or the team and them demanding a trade or the coach to be fired makes many tune out. I honestly don't care if you do or not and if you approve. If Lin played like a great player and was able to score a ton of points in the most efficient manner it would be easy to take but he isn't and doesn't enough to care if he stays or goes. As an example I usually on another board do a recap and if I say that Lin sucked at something I am called venomous things and told how I don't know squat or I am a racist or many other things. I have called every player out at one time or another if they sucked that evening. I also have said if they did good and applauded them. Like I said it has gotten tiresome and now it is just funny.
OK Many can cheery pick which stats they agree with. The team because of Morey disagrees with you. Those stats show possibilities that we can look at and take out the personal feelings that is usually displayed here by Lin fan boys. I have watched every great player and team for many decades and can tell honestly that Lin does not have it yet except to be a good PG eventually. He will never be a great one except in longevity sakes if that happens. That is a huge achievement though. Bev is real good in s such short of time. I do believe he needs another year though to become a more well rounded PG. He could start regressing and then I will change my mind. Right now it is obvious to me that Bev will be able to handle the starting PG spot soon. The Rockets will be fine without Lin. At least Lin fan boys will get their wish eventually and I am positive they will regret he is not a Rocket anymore. I will not laugh at them though. At least they will have learned something.
I have been watching basketball for 50 years and my penis is huge and I have an IQ of OVER 9,000! You know how I know who actually knows what they're talking about? By listening to what they actually say. Saying that opposing guards "blow by Lin" and that this is an indication of his poor defense is specious (P.S. - might want to look up what that word means), because opposing guards blow by EVERYONE. Lin himself blows by every single player in the league in a one-on-one situation. That's the nature of the modern NBA - guards are so fast and strong in general, and the rules of physical defense have changed so much in their favor, that they can break down any individual defender one-on-one and get to the rim. Beverley is just as prone to this problem as Lin is, except he covers it up by harassing the opposing guard once he steps across halfcourt. That's all fine and dandy and looks really great with all that hand-waving energy, but the truth is, the majority of the time this is a bad play in the NBA, because all the ball handler has to do in that situation is run a quick Give and Go. The same speed that lets any guard in the NBA get past his man with the ball lets him get past his man without the ball. And in this situation, now the guard has the ball at the top of the key with Bev trailing behind. This basically creates a 4-on-3 situation for the Rockets' defense from the get go. You don't see them blow by Beverley because they're doing it without the ball and before most people think the offense is "starting". But it happens plenty often. There's a reason why NBA defenses don't just send all their guys to harass everyone early, and the cost of having no one in the paint to defend the open man is a huge part of that. The same goes for the whole "no lateral quickness" argument for Lin. Now you're just repeating stuff that the talking heads say, when 90% of what they say is just generic blandishments they heard from someone else or empty cliches (i.e., "Jeremy Lin can't go to his left" or "Allen Iverson is the best pure scorer to ever play the game"). There's no such thing as lateral quickness in the NBA. Compare the average human forward running speed against the average human lateral running speed. It's not even a comparison. The difference is huge. Now do it for a premiere athlete. It's even bigger - because lateral quickness is severely hampered by anatomy while forward speed is less constrained (for the obvious reason that people are designed to move forward, not side to side). In the race between a guy running forward and a guy running sideways, no human being can ever catch up to another person in that case, especially when the guy running forward gets to initiate the race to begin with. What most people actually mean when they say "lateral quickness" in the NBA is the ability of a given player to keep himself between his man and the basket. That can be anything from lateral size (e.g. wingspan, which is near-instantaneous compared to lateral foot speed) to smart distance management or recognition of an opposing player's ball-handling tendencies. This has very little to do with "speed" and everything to do with smarts and experience (e.g., being able to a contest a shot regardless of how many pump-fakes your guy throws up). The important thing to watch in single-man defense is to see where the defender funnels his man, how he handles player rotations on the inevitable screens, and how he follows up once he's beaten. On these things, Lin actually seems to do pretty well. For example, he's very good at continuing to follow and harass his man even when he's beat (see: the Knicks game against the Bulls, when he blocks D-Rose from behind and strips him from behind in another play). Or he looks for the open man one pass away and gets into that lane to prevent an outlet pass. The problem is it's hard to see and understand where the real defensive breakdown occurs because the Rockets were so bad on defense in general that the only thing you could depend on was the funnel towards Asik, which wasn't always an available option in a given play. It's like penalizing Parsons for his poor Defensive Rating when a huge percentage of that score is dependent upon the rest of the team. Defense isn't a series of five 1-on-1 games all in isolation. In the NBA, it almost never is, especially when you have players on the floor who command more than one defender's attention at a time.
Your assessment means very little to me. I have also watched the game for decades, and have been writing and discussing it with many others on the internet for about two decades now. I have no idea what you know or don't know, so I can't take your opinion any more seriously than someone who says he just started watching the game a year or two ago. Not to be rude to you, but I don't know how good you are at analyzing the game, regardless of how long you have watched the game. Someone could stare at a Salvador Dali painting or an M. C. Escher drawing for 100 years and still not understand it very well, whereas another person might come along randomly and see such a painting or drawing and "get" it immediately. It's not about cherry picking stats. That's why statistical analyses are done like the one Nate Silver did. It's to take away the 'cherry picked' nature of statistics and remove the often-erroneous "eye test" arguments. Your apparent need to discuss, and put down, Lin "fanboys" makes me less inclined to listen to your arguments, at least as regards Lin himself. I usually look at analysts with clear chips on their shoulders a bit askew, as, for example, I have pointed out here before other NBA writers and analysts who have evident biases against particular players. By what you write, you may fit that bill as regards Lin. You may not. I don't know. But your railings against Lin "fanboys" might not be the best way to enhance your perceived objectivity on the subject of Jeremy Lin. Anyways, whatever. This discussion has probably gone on about as long as it needs to go on, between myself and yourself. At least from my end. One final thing, though. Lin is about 3 inches taller and 20-30 pounds heavier than Beverley is. In general, a larger and taller player won't have the same mobility as a smaller player. There are exceptions, such as LeBron James. It is usually more difficult for a player who is bigger to stay in front of smaller players. Which is part of the reason Lin seems to struggle with small and quick guards like JJ Barea, Nate Robinson, etc. On the other hand, Lin's size means he can present more of a problem for larger guards, like, say, Reggie Jackson. By the end of the OKC series, Jackson was doing much of what he wanted to against Beverley. And one reason for that seemed to be the size difference. That is not something which Lin is as likely to experience as compared with Beverley. As far as Lin not being with the Rockets, it could happen. As someone who likes Lin, I'd be ok with that. That's the way the NBA works, particularly when the GM is someone like Morey. That does not mean, however, that Beverley necessarily "won". As long as there is a salary cap, decisions have to be made and consequences lived with after those decisions. Houston gave Lin the contract, and that same contract could end up leading to Lin's leaving the Rockets. Way it goes.
luckytxn come on admit it that's you I quote you from a post which you made in ultimate rockets "Maybe we can have a new drinking game where we get to drink a shot of tequila every time Lin airballs."
