Islamists murder secular opposition politicians in Tunisia, Libya

I am shocked. SHOCKED!, I say...

Alternate headline: "Islamists in North Africa still Hell-bent on taking over Region and Instituting Sharia".

Alternate subheading: "Obama State Department has no comment on recent violence in North Africa, Carney says "We just have to let the Arab Spring play out", or somesuch nonsense..."

 

Getting real sick of your bull**** radical Islam.

Sincerely,
The World

 

Even after leaving Islam I still stand by the followers and always defend them(the peaceful ones). I still do as I never judge an individual based on religion or race but on actions only.

However, eventually Muslims need to realize there is something inherently wrong with the religion itself that does not allow many followers around the globe to adapt to a modern society.

 

Amen.

DD

 

Well what do you expect the Obama Admin to do? Should we send in troops, should we bomb them, press for sanctions? As you see with Egypt there is pretty much nothing the US can do without inflaming one side or the other and potentially making things worse.

 

Stop funding terrorism.

 

Just stop 'helping' them with weapons,troops,bombs,sanctions to achieve peace.

Especially stop using the name of democracy anywhere anymore. US is so far away from democracy. not a joke.

 

Take a goddamned side. Support the actual liberals there (which are not the same as the socialists/communists we call "liberals" here). Support freedom and oppose the MB/sharia.

I would like to see the administration support the military in the interim, acknowledge the "coup" - even though that would dictate temporarily halting delivery of 4 F-16s - and demand a new round of elections. Hang those acquisitions over the military's heads' and let them know that unless there was a new set of elections with the MB out of the picture then they would lose ALL assistance from us. Call it meddling if you want, but it's in everyone's interests for us to do so - it's called leadership. Take the side of the people AGAINST the MB and the Salafists.

Truthfully, Egypt is probably a lost cause. But that is not a sure thing and it is possible they can come out of this. But the administration is doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, they are not taking any position. That is EXACTLY the sort of weakness that we displayed when Iran had its Green Revolution, and we passed up a once in a generation chance to completely change the dynamics of the region. We had a chance to perhaps support a truly popular revolution against the mullahs and they said NOTHING for three weeks while Iranians died in the streets fighting a tyrant.

This administration's policy regarding Arab Spring has been passive. That is the WRONG approach to take. American weight can tip the balances there, but we are not using it. And we will probably not like the outcome.

Prepare for Egypt to be ultimately lost to the Islamists if we do not use our influence. And prepare for the war that will ultimately follow if that happens.

 

Funny that you claim that Obama should be supporting the liberals which are different from the socialists/communists....when Mr. Brahmi, was in fact a committed socialist.

And what a brilliant idea in Egypt. The US will impose and demand free and democratic elections in Egypt, but will also demand that said free and democratic elections should ban one of the biggest political organizations in Egypt. Oh joy. How could THAT go possibly wrong? Not to mention a total inability to understand the details of the Green Revolution, especially given the nationalistic bent of the Iranian people.

 

As I said, Egypt is probably lost. There are no good options. But I know this. If the Muslim Brotherhood and/or Salafists take control there unchecked then it will collapse. The peace between Israel and Egypt will collapse.

The MB was banned for a generation, and the peace was kept. The military can do it again. And it wouldn't be the first time we stuck our heads into someone else's business for the sake of stability.

Anything else will lead to chaos and war. Bank on it.

 

oh yeah, American involvement with Mubarak was swell.

 

Hmmm? A secular leader in Cairo you say? Someone to unite the Arab world?



Yeah, that would never happen.

 

Sure. For the sake of stability. But you're not advocating messing around in Egypt for the sake of stability, because if you were, there would be no need to look for a liberal leader who isn't a socialist or communist. You would just support the military which already has mass support among the Egyptians, and forget looking for a liberal. Not to mention, I have no idea how you can come to the conclusion that the Egypt is probably lost when they well, just kicked out an Islamist leader.

 

American involvement with Mubarak kept the peace for over 30 years. We help them stay in power and supply them armaments, and in return they abide by the peace treaty with Israel and refrain from starting another regional conflagration.

That's a price I'd pay again for peace. If the MB comes back into power then you can ultimately kiss that treaty goodbye. It will just be a matter of time.

 

The only thing I care about viv a vis Egypt is stability. I would take military rule over the Muslim Brotherhood any day of the week. You're going to end up with a dictatorship either way. The military would maintain regional stability and would probably be better for the people anyway.

Just as in Iraq there are genuinely good people there who truly want freedom and are willing to fight for it. I can definitely side with those people and I wish them the best. But there are not enough of them to win. It was no fluke that when given the chance the Egyptian people elected the Muslim Brotherhood to an OVERWHELMING victory. Guess who came in second? The salafists, who are even worse. Together they captured roughly 65% of the vote.

The fact that the majority of Egyptians WANT Islamist rule bodes very poorly for their future. The fact that they just kicked out an Islamist leader means nothing, they will simply elect another one when given the chance. It is who they are. It won't end well.

 

how noble and selfless of you to pay the price of other people's fundamental democratic rights, for your peace

and you wonder why some people resent this line of thinking...

 

LOL, and you think that their "fundamental democratic rights" are not at sever risk when they elect Islamists to power? Who happily go about instituting sharia, suspending judiciary powers, suppressing other political parties, and attempting to consolidate military obedience with purges?

Are you SERIOUSLY going to argue that?

I don't care if some people resent my line of thinking. You don't seem to understand that they are going to end up with a dictatorship either way, whether it is the military calling the shots or the MB. Did you completely miss what has happened over the past couple of years under Morsi?!? Tell me he wasn't a freaking tyrant. Tell me he wasn't a duly elected tyrant.

Just as the Palestinians proved when they got their shot at democratic freedom when they elected a terrorist organization to lead them in Gaza, the Egyptian people have proven that when given a chance they are not going to pick leaders who will look out for their best interests - including preserving their "fundamental democratic rights". If their are going to be under a tyrant's thumb and lose their "fundamental democratic rights" either way, then I'd vastly[/i[] prefer that we at least have some regional stability while we're at it.

And I'd like to note how amusing it is to see Leftists / "liberals" defending the most-decidedly illiberal Islamists across the ME. Hypocrites.

 

year...

 

The end state question is: What's the lesser of two evils, a secular dictatorship or a Islamist "democracy"?