This is a common mantra amongst believers. If you take away religion, what's is going to happen is... <insert any catastrophic event>. There is no single proof that the world will collapse if humans all of sudden stop believing in the supernatural. These are just talking points that has no historical value. Happiness does not just come from material things. I don't know how you go from no religion to just material. Please provide evidence of studies that this will be the case. Otherwise, stop making stuff up.
Umm... What evidence do you base this motivational Independence Day style monologue by? This is all pure bs. Humans do not need to believe in false fairy tails in order to advance and be "inspired".
They wouldn't exclude intelligence if there were any evidence for it just like they wouldn't exclude the universe being a sixth grade alien's science project if there were any evidence for it. To make a conclusion based on nothing isn't science. What's funny about this is that you have faith with the benefit of scientific discoveries. A 6th century Christian knows nothing about the universe so he's attributed everything, the mechanisms of nature and the world, simply to god. A 21st century Christian just attributes knowledge attained through science to the intelligence of god. If in 5,000 years science has cracked the origin of life, religions will say that's just how god did it. In 25,000 years when humanity evolves physically and evolution is more readily observed in nature then religions will say that's how god intended life to work. That's why these arguments become pointless. When the premise is a creator, an all powerful force, then nothing is beyond possible so taking science and incorporating it into god's powers is just a never ending rabbit hole. A scientist can never hope to prove anything to a Christian because the existence of all powerful gods capable of anything isn't a testable theory and no amount of science can ever disprove something that only exists in faith.
For the believers....just curious, when you die and whatever happens happens....if it contradicts what you believe now, will that change your beliefs, or will it just be another stage of life that god controls, yet chooses to remain shrouded from? Simply put, what needs to happen for you to consider altering your beliefs?
In fairy tales? No. But humans do need to believe in something, something abstract or in the form of ideals, a form of belief which is very different from the belief associated with science. I don't agree with Schopenhauer for example, but he believed that art was the best tool of inspiration, that when humans contemplated art, they could get a better sense of their mortality and thus be inspired. There's nothing scientific about that. That's the key here, and it's something I've gone over. I don't particularly care for religion, and REALLY don't care for Christianity - if we had more Christians posting here, I'd probably go ahead and attack their beliefs instead of attacking nihilism, but I digress. I do care for faith and trust - faith doesn't necessarily have to exist in religion, but faith does exist and should exist. Bradbury more or less pointed it out when he talked about us being a lost people in the Martin Chronicles.
You are looking at this fairly narrowly and in terms of faith versus science. Science is a way of understanding the universe based upon a logical structure and empiricism. As rational (thinking) beings though there is a limit to what can be understood empirically and that is where faith plays a role. Think of it this way. Science can explain the how but not really the why of existence. For example I can scientifically explain how I am here through a chain of causality regarding my parents having sex at the right time that my mom was ovulating and then follow human development. That doesn't explain why I am here. In other words is there any meaning for my existence or for existence of the Universe overall. It isn't necessary but a lot of things we do are not necessary for life or even a happy life. That said if we limited to ourselves to just what is necessary that would probably be a fairly sterile life. We are inquisitive by nature and it is part of the human condition to ask those type of questions. The answers aren't really as important as asking the questions. If that was the case then we wouldn't actually fear death since it is nothing. The problem I see with this position that it is a reductivist position that is nihilistic. That doesn't mean that it makes someone a bad person but that I think it is as restricting and narrow as an extreme faith position.
As Durvasa pointed out Crick never abandoned Evolution as you claimed and further the directed panspermia theory doesn't conflict with Evolution. For one Evolution actually doesn't directly deal with the formation of complex molecules, it is about the speciation not the origin of life, and two Crick never says that highly intelligent beings created complex molecules but that they seeded them on Earth.
This is a misunderstanding of the scientific method. To understand something using the scientific method it does take intelligence but that doesn't mean what is being understood requires an intelligent. For example I can set up an experiment to understand how crystals are formed. I can then create crystals. I am an intelligence that is creating an artificial situation to create crystals so I can figure out the process of crystalization. That doesn't mean that crystals don't spontaneously form without the action of intelligence. My experiment is really a simulacra of what is happening naturally and not what is exactly what happens naturally.
i believe that there is something around us that we dont quite understand. maybe some kind of universal laws, like something similar to karma. i definitely believe in things such as good and bad vibes, and chemistry when it comes to love. as far as god in the judeo/christian/islamic sense with evidence given through the prophets, im not sure. if i had to chose i think there is definitely something supernatural about our world. but is it really "divine" or "super natural" or just laws of the universe that we dont understand. possibly a mix. its hard to say, and the bottom line is we will never know for certain. there is no way to prove something humans, that is simply beyond the human senses. that is what faith is, you either have it or you dont.
What you and Durvasa (one of my favorite posters) are missing is that "evolution" is not just about process but origin. While Crick may have not changed his view about process he most certainly offered an alternative view of origin. Nevertheless, here is the bottom line, regardless of what Crick did or did not do or say, I am convinced beyond any argument that the origin of life was not a mindless, meaningless, random process. My first course in A&P convinced me. My study of genetics hardened by views and they will not change. This is one of those issues that you just have to make a decision and go with it. There are scientists in both camps. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. He created the whole endless universe. He created man, the animals, and the plants each after its own kind. I have no idea how He did it or how long it took. I just know that He is the Creator not chance.
Actually evolution was never meant to address the origin, it only addresses speciation. It explains diversity not origination - there are different theories for that. Modern experimentation shows that if you have C, H, O, & N, existing together with water, you will get all the amino acids. From there, the creation of self-replicating proteins and RNA isn't all that big of a leap over the course of a billion years. In terms of a creator - the flaw of thinking a "god" created the universe is that time didn't exist at the start of the universe. So the very idea of "creation" implies some sort of time orientation. Furthermore, if god created the universe, the begs the question - who created god?
Just because faith says it can answer the "WHY" questions does not mean that the proposed answer is true. It is at best.. a guess. Sure science can attempt to answer this but since, it is not able to at the moment and might not be able to, the answer is.. it still doesn't know. Your proposal that since science can't answer it then faith (no evidence is required) is a good substitute? We agree on most of this you mentioned except for the "sterile life" conclusions. Don't you feel it is a bit arrogant for you to take the stand that atheist live a sterile life? The one we don't agree on is the path that someone takes to answer these questions. Your path is.. this is the answer and I will find evidence that fits this answer - this is not how logic and reason works. If you have a question, you let the evidence lead you to the answer - not the other way around. Where do you get this information? If you have one shot to make a free throw to win the championship (no after life), wouldn't you concentrate more as oppose to having 2 or more chances to win a game (christian theology) ? If you know that you only have THIS life to live, you will try to maximize your time on this earth knowing that you only have one chance to experience this. You seem to projecting your personal feelings and make a conclusion that everybody feels the same way as you do. I can only suggest that you look at studies on how UNHAPPY atheist are. You might be surprised and get an enlightenment instead of basing your conclusions or predictions on just your own perception.
This got me thinking... It depends on what you think time actually is. For example: Thought provoking stuff, IMO.
Physics combine space and time into one manifold - so in reality they don't exist independent of one another. Time defines space and space defines time. What's even weirder is that when you get small enough, the dimensions break down further and aren't even orthogonal anymore, and even more bizarre is that space and time themselves are quantized - suggesting that literally the universe is some massive computer program.
After this: <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Chris Palmer no longer works for ESPN, according to sources.</p>— Lakerholicz (@Lakerholicz) <a href="https://twitter.com/Lakerholicz/statuses/360802232356175873">July 26, 2013</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Yes. Yes I do believe in God.
Excellent question. We as human beings are programmed to think that everything has a beginning/end, start/finish so therefor it is logical to assume that if there is a "God" who created him? The quandary lies in that this question can also be applied to the universe? If in fact everything evolved from the "Big Bang", then we can also ask what was before the "Big Bang"? If the elements that were responsible for the "Big Bang" have always existed then it is also plausible that if there is a "God" he has always existed. In my opinion everything boils down to faith, faith that the elements always existed and miraculously joined to form the universe or faith that God miraculously said: "Let there be". I have chosen the latter. ....... ....... .......
So, what more would it take for you to believe in a higher power? Alright, if I saw a tape of Jesus Christ himself blessing Mary Magdalene, while singing “Amazing Grace”, and Mary was holding two forms of government ID, while a Roman Centurion was there, about 4 or 5 of my buddies and larsv8 was there taking notes... Well... I’m not finished, and the Virgin Mary has to be there to confirm his identity... That’s my JC, always blessing everybody and performing miracles...Don’t forget her original sin, Jesus Mr. Mana, isn’t that excessive? No. No it’s not excessive. Listen lady, the burden of proof is on the Church. On the Church. You have got to prove to ME beyond a REASONABLE doubt that this man is the lord and savior. Aren’t your doubts unreasonable? No it’s not unreasonable. Look, we’re talking about a country where the fastest growing religion is “None”. I’ve seen the tape, where dozens of priests have been accused of child abuse, they said they had a justification. I have my justifications too. How come they can they can condemn non-believers and gay people to hell for all eternity, but their shellfish-eating, divorcing, non-women-as-property asses will get into heaven with a few hail marys? ‘Cause Red Lobster is just that good? I want justice. This whole belief system is out of order! EVERYBODY! Mr. Mana, you’re dismissed. And that’s from the heart.
