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On Jeremy Lin ...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jtr, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. King1

    King1 Member

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    The addition of Howard should prevent him from needing to do that often this year. When the ball comes back out to him he should have either a reasonable look at a jumper or just one man to beat instead of the constant doubles he faced last year.

    I think they're going to trade Asik. It just makes no sense to keep him.
     
  2. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    Harden has great vision for a sg but a pg he is not. He doesn't have the wherewithal nor should he to distribute and set up our other pieces unless its directly leading to a bucket. And the attack Lin led on the break, though so many people have scoffed at his Homerun outlet passes were conducive to the quick attack mentality of our offense and I don't see Garden or anyone else doing it well. It's easy to dismiss it but without Lin's pg skillset I do think our offensive output last year would not have been reached. And that's with Lin not performing to expectations.
    The sixth man role is NOT ideal for Lin at all. This is a completely misinformed and misunderstood meme among many that I see there days. Lin is not a scoring sg, nor is he of that mindset. Once again, we'd be asking him to change his game followed by criticism of how he's not performing. Lin is a fast attacking pg, and one that would most be effective over the course of the game through his all around game. IMO, he will not be more effective as a 6th man and the only effect it would have is in hiding him and benching him more (many peiole would love that) but it does not help the Rockets get better by benching Lin or getting rid of Lin unless we get a great piece back. At this point, it behooves all of us to hope Lin shoots better and meshes well with our big two so we can have a championship caliber team, which we will have a much better chance of with an improved Lin than an improved Bev or a Jennings type pick up.
     
  3. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Lin is best when he is attacking the basket repeatedly, whether off acceleration or a PnR. Regardless of whether or not he actually gets to the basket, the aggression still opens up the offense for him to facilitate by dumping off to a rolling big, cutting wing, or spot up shooter (Harden usually as he forgot how to move without the ball). It's not that people dismiss his PG skillset, but rather he will not often get a chance to utilize it playing with Harden who acts as our PG for much the game.

    At this point in time, it is not how we can integrate Lin's skillset into our offense. He is not good enough for that as our offense is based around the focal points of Harden and Howard. One dominates the ball outside and the other inside. There is no real room for Lin in that mix with his skill level unless Harden and Howard agrees to shift more ball handling to Lin and have less touches. Basically Lin needs to figure out how to fully develop has off the ball game, find a new team, or run with the secondary to resume his PG duties. With the starting lineup, the only time he can use his skillset fully is when he is actually manning point; typically when Harden sits to rest or if he is just flat out sucking it up.
     
  4. cw3k

    cw3k Member

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    As a Lin's fan, I do not see Lin will not finish as a Rockets regardless what the outcome will be next year.

    Case 1: Lin is garbage (which he is not) - he will be traded
    Case 2: Lin is average (which he is now) - he will be traded for someone much cheaper.
    Case 3: Lin is great - he will demand a trade. He will not stay as the number 3 or 4 options.

    If Lin is turned out great, there is only 1 thing that can keep him, the coach utilizing Lin to the full potential, which mean he has to run the offense. But I don't see that happening as long as the head coach is still McHale. Other than that, Lin will not finish his contract as a Rocket.
     
  5. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    I do think he can coexist with Harden and we've seen glimpses of it last year. He's just got to get his shot down and be more assertive. We shall see but a ball dominant Harden was not us at our best. For some strange reason people remember us playing better when Harden handled the ball more but rhat is completely untrue. Harden got his regardless and perforned best when playing efficiently. We clicked when all our other guys got into it. Too much Harden ball led to an iso happy, stagnant, limited offense. Now, people think we need Harden to handle the ball more? We need a dynamic aggressive fast playing pg, not a spot up shooter with Harden taking even more of the pg duties. If Lin doesn't pan out, we'd still be better off with another playmaking pg with excellent vision and not have Harden handle it even more ruining his efficiency, our up tempo offense, and our chance to get a championship.

    Frankly speaking, most people on the board don't know enough about basketball and make wrong assumptions. Its not a matter of me being condescending or just a difference of opinions. It's just a matter of experience and expertise. And btw, no I'm not saying Lin is gonna be that guy, he may not be. I'm talking about the desire of many ill-advised fans thinking we don't need a playmaking pg or that Harden should handle the ball more. It's preposterous. Harden does not have the skillset to run an uptempo offense. He's a superb playmaking unselfish sg and that's a different matter altogether.
     
  6. raskol

    raskol Contributing Member

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    I doubt Lin will demand a trade. Lin will be fine. If he does well, he'll stay. Quite simple.
     
  7. autoprt

    autoprt Member

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    the main thing lin has to focus on is his jumpshot and making it consistent everything else will resolve around that. otherwise players will leave him wide open and double team, not sure if lifting weights last summer threw his shot off but he had a much better jumper in ny.
     
  8. jtr

    jtr Member

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    I believe that Lin is the Rocket that will benefit most from the arrival of Howard. Typically on a Lin drive last season the center would leave Asik and rotate to the driving Lin. There was little danger of a nifty pass to Asik for an at the rim shot. Howard is a completely different animal. The defense will seldom be willing to rotate off of Howard because Lin will have the option of just throwing up the ball in the general area of Howard for the slam.

    Harden will also benefit from Howard's presence, but he is crafty in the lane and therefor scores on the majority of his drives anyway. I would not be surprised at all if Lin adds 2.5 assists per game just to Howard off of his drives.
     
  9. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    It is not whether or not Lin handling PG duties is best for the team, but rather will the ball handling duties be offered to Lin in the first place with Harden and Howard on our team. For better or worse, they are our stars and they demand the ball. Lin is a focal point and whether or not he gets the ball is ultimately the decision of the coach and our stars. If Lin wants to continue and stay with the Rockets team, he needs to show he can excel as an off the ball PG as I anticipate his PG duties will be further marginalized with Howard on the team now.
     
  10. apcgamb24

    apcgamb24 Member

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    I understand your point about Lin, but the whole 6th man thing has already been discussed. You say he should be 6th man to not play with Harden so he can predominantly control the ball. But it's not like Harden is going to be resting a lot. He'll still be getting his 36-38 minutes, which will only leave around 10 min for Lin to be the sole playmaker. His other 20-22 minutes will still be coming with him playing with Harden so that doesn't really solve the isssue. I'd rather have Lin start to start the game on a positive tone and not put too much pressure on Harden early in the game. Then as the game progresses Mchale should stagger their minutes at times. Mchale did that for a little bit during the season, but a majority of the time he would substitute Lin and Harden in at the same time. IMO either Lin or Harden (or both) should always be on the floor. Not doing that is just not maximizing your resources. And the Lin/Bev combo seemed to work well, albeit a short sample size.

    The fact is that Harden and Lin are the two best guards on the team, and each play one of the two guard positions. If the Rockets want to be successful not only now but in the future, they have to be able to efficiently utilize the two best guards together, not seperately. As the season went on Lin played better alongside Harden and more off the ball, and he shot a pretty good 3PT%. If Lin can at least maintain that next year, there really shouldn't be any debate whether he should be a 6th man. Because along with his good 3point shooting, he can also attack the rim and put even more pressure on defenses, which will ease up opportunities for Harden, Dwight, Parsons, etc.
     
  11. King1

    King1 Member

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    We just don't see eye to eye on this so I'll just say agree to disagree. I will add that Brandon Jennings would be a horrible pickup for this team. I don't understand how he is a viable option
     
  12. King1

    King1 Member

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    If Harden can average 36 that's fine and I think Lin with 10-12 minutes as the primary ball handler is better then how he will be used next season. If he's scoring off the bench I'm sure McHale would have no problem riding with the hot hand. The key for Lin is keeping his confidence up. When he's passive and just falls back he's nothing more then a spot up shooter. He needs to attack the basket. I honestly don't even care about his assists. I'd rather have him in a Crawford rle. He can put up numbers in a hurry when he's at his best and that's not in our starting lineup imo. Also remember it doesn't matter who starts; it's who finishes. That was something I really like out of McHale. He went with the hot hand. I don't like Bev/Lin at all to be honest.

    The Spurs would disagree with your premise and that is one of the best run franchises we've seen.
     
  13. DOLPHIN2k2

    DOLPHIN2k2 Member

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    Actually, stat shows Harden is best net off and def when Lin is on the floor and actually the worst when Asik is on.

    http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/s4pm/2013/hardeja01_2013.html
     
  14. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I think you are misreading that page. I read it as when same 4 players play with Harden they are better than the same 4 players and Lin. If the same 4 players play with Asik they are better than the same 4 players when they play with Harden. Moral of the story, Asik is awesome and it is going to take more than chump change to get him away from Morey.

    Using NBA.com's unadjusted +/-
    Rockets play better with Harden when Lin is off the court than with him on the court.
    Rockets play better with Harden when Asik is on the court than with him off the court.
    Rockets play better with Harden when Beverley is on the court than with him off the court.
     
    #234 Joe Joe, Jul 23, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  15. cw3k

    cw3k Member

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    The said can be said if you replace Harden with Lin. The only different will be the FG made percentage is higher.

    While Harden is a very talented player, but I just hate seeing him forcing shots after shots.
     
  16. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    ?

    As far as I can tell, Asik is the only one that played major minutes that paired with Lin better than Harden and that difference is small.

    http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/s4pm/2013/linje01_2013.html
    From this, it looks like the same 4 players played better with Harden, Beverley, or Delfino than they did with Lin.

    Lin needs to learn to work on being off ball.
     
  17. seahawk

    seahawk Member

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    This is more likely the scenario:

    Case 1: Lin is garbage - No body wants him, he stays
    Case 2: Lin is average - Morey could not find a good trade, he stays
    Case 3: Lin is great - Morey / Les are happy to keep him, so he stays

    I think we are now in Case 2.
     
  18. koopa

    koopa Member

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    Steve Nash is 40 years old and making over 10 million a year with lakers and doesnt do a lick of defense. Why isn't anyone crying wolf over his salary and the fact he's being overpaid?
     
  19. DOLPHIN2k2

    DOLPHIN2k2 Member

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    With that interpretation, it would mean that the same 4 player when playing with Asik and not Harden results in net -12 off and - 26 def for a net of -38. I would think Asik's def shouldn't be this bad even without Harden. It doesn't make sense.
     
  20. DOLPHIN2k2

    DOLPHIN2k2 Member

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    Never mind, I think I see what you are saying now.
     

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