Honestly rhester you practice a different version of Christianity than most Christians I run into. I consider you quite the anomaly and I hope you take that as a compliment.
I see once again people are conflating science with faith and vice versa. Both can coexist and I would argue as rational beings we actually need both.
Has worked for me for years. The key is not to confuse the scientific method with scientism. Scientism is science as religion. The scientific method is an epistemology (theory of knowledge) which demands tangible, measurable, empirical evidence. I love the scientific method, but Christianity is my religion. There are many evidences which support my belief system. For example, Psalm 22 was written about 1000 bc, but contains an amazingly detailed description of a crucifixion scene, exactly like the one described in the Gospels. Crucifixion as a form of execution did not exist during this period. Most historians believe that it was created by the Assyrians centuries later and then perfected by the Romans at the time of Christ.
This is what I can't stand. What you're hearing is the most vocal ones who are interested in judging you and worried only about where your soul ends up when you die...as if that's the penultimate of being a Jesus follower. Most of the Christians I know...the ones I hang around with...the church I'm part of...is like rhester. Concerned with giving back love the way they perceive they've received it from God through Jesus. Like ridiculous love and sacrifice for other people...it's really inspiring, even if you don't agree with them on theology. But I agree...the loudest ones are the ones that shape the perception of the faith from people who otherwise aren't exposed to in depth. That sucks.
As a Christian, are you saying that a person can go to heaven without believing in Jesus? Try googling "Jesus is the only way to god" and check the results. This is being expressed not only in the internet but has been the mantra of Christianity ever since its inception. Christianity does not discourage this type of behavior but rather commended and encouraged. You, rhester and the other Christians are good people because your moral compass is sound . Christiany did not make you good, you made yourself that. Just like saying person X is a good person because he/she is an atheist.
I respect everyones beliefs in here. Alot of my closest friends are those who are unbelievers. I feel I can make a positive difference in their life. What breaks my heart to even THINK about is a child asking their parent who is an unbeliever that if God is real and the child indeed does believe in him, that the parent would be OK knowing they were going to spend an eternity away from that very child if God is in fact real. Everything you need to know is in the Bible. God says his ways are not our ways, he works outside the realm that we live in. Don't try to understand, understanding is in faith. The Bible says reguarding the very first example of evangelism that the one thing believers should tell unbelievers is "Come and see" to any questions they may have. Get connected to a Bible based church. Join a church where there is no apology for what the Bible says. People get offended by something in it? So what, the public, government, even your next door neighbor offends Christians on a daily basis. As a Christian we believe what God said, no apologies needed. So to anyone here who is on the border of believing and not believing... I say to you... "Come and see"
I've read multiple posts in this thread where Christians have a persecution complex and act like the world is out to get them. Frankly, it's quite ridiculous. Christianity is still by far the majority religion in the US and permeates the entire American social fabric. Just because there are now some very loose Constitutional bounds on how much it can seep into governance and a few people badmouth Christianity every now and then, some Christians are acting like their way of life is threatened.
Some of you are operating with a stereotype of a very narrow, legalistic, nit-picking version of Christianity that parses every theological detail. However, Max, what could be more loving than to be concerned about ones eternal destiny? Without the basic doctrine of Christianity which is that "God so loved the world that he gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16), "loving people" has little substance, and less consequence. My love for people is manifested in my passion for them to know Christ and be "born again" as He taught. Spiritual transformation is at the very root of what Christianity is. Jesus said that He "was the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father except by Me." (John 14:6). This the foundation on which our faith stands. Do you agree?
at best that is paraphrased and a translation. we have no idea if he said that or not. my guess is that if he did say something along those lines he meant it was through his teaching, his example. if he thought he was literally the son of god and he was of virgin birth then he was insane. regardless, his "message" via the bible offers many valuable lessons for living with yourself and with others. of course, so do many other great books of faith.
I agree with your premise (so does the late, great C.S. Lewis) that Jesus either was the Son of God or he was deluded or as you put it, "insane." We all have a choice to believe what we want on that issue. Before your final decision on the matter, I would respectfully ask you to do something which I think is only fair to both Jesus and yourself, and that is to read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It actually won't take that long and you will then have a panoramic view of the life and works of Jesus. You will have an account of what He did and said from four different perspectives. You may have done this at some time in your life, but it is worth repeating. It is up to you. What can it hurt?
solid, i am pro-jesus but anti-absolutes. people need spirituality, just saying that it is ultimately personal and about growth and not perfection. there is danger in taking things literally. words on a paper are abstract human constructs, "reality" floats in, out and beyond us.
A most interesting statement (bolded)! I understand the concept of what I call the "social construction of reality," but we are communicating and speaking (writing) coherently and with a reasonable level of understanding. Without some faith in words to carry "plain and literal" meaning the world becomes chaotic and unintelligible. The Gospel accounts that I encouraged you to read are different yet similar which in a way illustrates your point, that reality requires confirmation by multiple sources. Each Gospel writer had a different style, used different words in describing the same events, and were from dissimilar backgrounds. They exhibit different temperaments and area of emphasis. Please consider taking a look. I predict that you will be surprised with what you find.
solid, i am not anti-words nor am i questioning the value of the gospels or any other spiritual guide book's "pearls of wisdom." i am only saying that spirituality is something that one must come to on their own terms. otherwise, it is apocryphal.
I believe in Jesus. The bible says that those who don't hear his voice think it's "foolishness". Those who don't believe in Jesus I don't sit in judgment. However what turns a lot of people off about Jesus (nonbelievers) is there are many believers who will sit in judgment. These are religious people, and Jesus himself despised religious people (pharisees). All a believer in Christ can do is share their testimony. You can't force anyone to believe in Jesus. He gave each of us free volition. The freedom to make the choice for ourselves. He said that if you seek him, and open your heart to what he has to say, that he WILL show you who he is. Those of you who haven't done this, I respect your decision, but for those of you who haven't ever given him the chance, I hope and pray that one day you will. My father, my wife, my brother and his entire family, and a few of my closest friends, don't believe in Christ. I respect their decision, but that won't keep me from continuing to pray for them that one day they'll open their heart and give him a hearing. To seek him. I wish each of you peace on your journey here on earth. God bless!!
You continue to fascinate me. Who uses the word "apocryphal?!" You made your point, and I understand. I wish I could take you into my "reality." Obviously, I view the Gospels as more than "wisdom literature;" I view them as historical and revelational. I respect your perspective. I just wish I could convert you to become a Christian. See you around the site, and thank you for responding. You are a very interesting poster.
Rhester, if you still have my email address, email me. I would love to talk with you and renew our acquaintance. Much has happened since we last visited.
