So I'm tired of hearing this whole thing that black people are complaining about nothing or that black people are 'Rioting' thing when it was people rioting in one city and nothing like the real racial riots that happened years ago. Also people have a right to protest about anything, we had people in Detroit protesting about the GM of their NFL team...now we have people thinking it's close to silly that black people protest against stuff like this? Stuff that actually affects their children and families and communities? Also that it's just black people saying this or protesting this, it's not. So this has nothing to do with Floyd. All Floyd proves is that you can easier get away with being a racist if you're black because he's said so many racist things against Asians, Hispanics, and White people throughout his career.
Why do you people keep claiming that Zimmerman "instigated an altercation"? There is *ZERO* evidence that this is what occurred. Following someone does NOT equate to "instigating an altercation". Striking someone would. There is *ZERO* evidence that Zimmerman physically assaulted Martin, yet there is evidence that Martin struck Zimmerman. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman ignored the advice of the 911 operator; he acknowledged it and then reportedly began to head back to his vehicle. You are making a very large assumption with zero evidence when you claim that Zimmerman "instigated an altercation". This is a critical point that your side misses completely in this debate. It's what turned the entire case as well. What Zimmerman did was obviously stupid in hindsight, but it wasn't criminal, it didn't qualify as "instigating an altercation", and therefore he can claim self defense once it got to a certain point. SYG wouldn't have come into effect until the point at which Zimmerman believed that his life/limb were at risk of great harm, and by that time Martin was on top of him and he had no reasonable opportunity for escape. This was never going to be a SYG case, as it wasn't an appropriate situation. He never should have gotten out of the vehicle. That is the big mistake he made. But I can understand why he did (to keep eyes on the subject so he could vector LEOs to him). Hindsight is 20/20. You can call him stupid or whatever (and I won't disagree), but it has no bearing on the case.
JayGoogle - Why don't you guys find a case that actually merits the outrage? Sorry, but there's no way this one was going to end any other way. There are plenty of cases out there where bias is on display, why don't you go protest those? This one isn't one of them.
I don't think I said anything about the rioting, but I will say that it does nothing to help convince white Americans that there is a problem with the way the system works for black Americans when they use a case like this where the right verdict was reached.
Stopped reading there. Dude, you must really have something against Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman followed him. If someone is following me, I am going to confront them to see what they want. Zimmerman doesn't look like he wants to rob a kid. Now if he gets loud and hostile with me and starts laying down accusations I would drop his ass. GZ sucks at fighting....that's it.Take the ass whooping and move one. You knew that could happen when you chased after someone and started screaming at them. He also sucks at thinking and concentrating...so much that he takes meds for it. I am sure the adderall got him thinking he is Superman and nothing can hurt him, especially when he's coming off it.
It's not just black people protesting this. This case as a whole has racial elements to it and you know people are using this case to get active about a larger issue. Well it's not black america vs white america. It's not that. So I don't think anyone is protesting trying to convince white people of anything. Especially when white people are also joining in to protest. It's more than the verdict again. It's the fact that Zimmerman killed a man and was released the same day. The fact that Zimmerman MAY have profiled Trayvon, even his own attorney Mark O'Mara admitted this this week on The View. The fact that we think it's just okay to put 5 white people on a jury for a case like this and expect there to be no bias. It's proven that people are going to relate to people that look like them. It's not that they are racist, but listen to B37, she clearly held sympathy for Zimmerman. That he was trying to do the right thing, just went too far, had learned his lesson etc etc.
And at that point YOU would forfeit any self-defense or SYG defense you may require, because YOU have just committed a crime. As soon as you lay your hands on someone else you commit a crime. That is exactly the point that your side is missing - or simply doesn't care about. Following someone is not a crime. Striking someone is. Again, speaking with ZERO evidence. There is NO evidence that Zimmerman was "screaming" at Martin. "Take your ass whooping and move on" doesn't really apply if you are in fear that you are going to die because someone is smashing your head into the pavement.
We argued about this the other day, I think, but the point remains that until Sharpton and Jackson showed up and injected race into this case it was not an issue. Note that during the trial it was not an issue. It was that way for a reason - because nobody racially profiled anybody (Zimmerman was suspicious because of Martin's behavior and attire more than anything, and the fact that he did not look like he belonged in the neighborhood), and because he matched the description of suspects in a rash of crimes that had recently taken place in the area. He was a neighborhood watchman, it was his job to be suspicious of people like Martin. And I don't just mean "black people" (because I know it's coming), I mean people who do not live in the neighborhood, people who appear to be possibly casing houses, young people wearing hoodies - again, matching a description of previous suspects. The case itself has absolutely nothing to do with race. You people are simply using it as an excuse to vent. I will tell you this, you will never change the system - and it does need some changing - unless you can get white America on your side. You are certainly not going to accomplish that by acting like this.
I figured this may be interesting for some people; its an article documenting the racial component to "stand-your-ground" laws: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/.
And the third paragraph leads with "Since Martin’s killer, George Zimmerman, invoked the stand-your-ground defense"... Sorta hard to take it too seriously if they can't get that simple fact correct. Anyway, the article asks a question that it cannot (and does not) answer, as it admits that the circumstances behind the homicides were not taken into account. That's sorta important if you're looking for evidence of a bias.
Yes, the country we live in is unsafe. Do not put yourself in a position to get beat up and needing to retaliate by killing someone. Don't stalk people and then bust out accusations. You don't do that. People have gotten their ass kicked for much less. And they don't even call the police. I listened to the tape. There is evidence. You said there wasn't any evidence Martin was being followed either. I can't take anything you say without thinking you're bluffing or you really hate Martin. You don't know how he got the damage to the back of his head. This is how you believe the escalation went down: *Zimmerman casually walking, talking on his phone *Sees Martin walking on the other side of the street *Martin puts cell in his pocket and lunges at Zimmerman *Martin knocks Zimmerman out *Martin gets on top of him and punches him and grabs his head to smash it into the pavement *Zimmerman shoots him
None of us know what was in Zimmerman's heart when he decided what he decided. And people can reasonably argue all damn day about what "he did not look like he belonged in the neighborhood" meant to Zimmerman. It's so tiring because both sides keep arguing things they cannot possibly know. The only important truths are these: the kid is dead, Zimmerman shot him, the prosecution tried for murder 2 with crap for evidence, and on that basis Zimmerman was rightly found not guilty. Then a bunch of people got really upset about it because they brought a load of assumption to the case, be in a righteous Zimmerman or a racist Zimmerman, an innocent kid or a thug kid, on and on. Blech.
Agreed, it's just a bunch of hearsay and accusations from both sides. nothing is going to change, we won't get the evidence to know what happened, and just let it be done. let the family grieve and move on with their loss.
If Zimmerman is charged on day one then Sharpton and Jackson and the whole race issue of this isn't a problem. Also again, his own attorney said on the view that Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because he was black. EVEN if he's doing it just because he technically looked like the guy who really was the criminal. That is still profiling. If a white guy robs a house people don't start to go "Well the next white guy I see must be it." That happens to black people though. All the time. It also has nothing to do with his past history with black people either. It really does not, you can still profile and sterotype. It doesn't make him this hardcore nazi white power racist, but it does mean that he profiled and stereotyped Trayvon. I hope by people you mean a bunch of black people and non-black people. It does for all the reasons I continue to mention. If Zimmerman was black he'd be charged for murder day one. Not released. If Trayvon was white he would have never been profiled or stereotyped. Well there seems to be a bunch of white people as well thinking it is about race and things need to change so it must be working.
Alright, man, just injecting some numbers into this otherwise completely normative argument thread. No need to get snippy. But...since you bring it up, the Zimmerman case did bring the "stand-your-ground" law into the national limelight. This could have been what the sentence was trying to say. The sentence is ambiguous, but it also doesn't say "at trial" so it could mean any number of things. In any case, this is a complete red herring argument. Second, you're right; correlation is not causation. However, even in non-stand your ground states, white defendants generally are more successful in establishing self-defense claims when the victim is black, in relation to black-on-black and black-on-white. Again, doesn't prove anything conclusive, but odds are that something is going on.
LOL, "Do not put yourself in a position to get beat up" is not a legal standard anyone can meet, I think, unless they simply don't leave their home. Even then it's dicey. The fact that you and other people prone to violence think it's OK to throw the first punch when unprovoked does not make it acceptable. Or legal. I don't think you did. There isn't any evidence of what you are saying. I've listened to it, too. Why don't you give it a shot? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8 What in the hell are you talking about? *When* do you think that I said that? I never said he was following Martin, don't know where you got that from. Well, an expert witness said it was consistent with having his head strike the pavement during the trial. Given that he had those injuries as soon as the first witness showed up seconds after the gunshot, any attempt by you or anyone else is to claim that he did not sustain them in the fight is laughable. Just as it was laughable when the prosecution tried to do it during trial. Er, no. Zimmerman was in his vehicle following Martin when he called the police. He got out of his car to follow when he saw Martin start running. That much we know for a fact. Ms. Jenteal testified that she heard Zimmerman say "What are you doing here?" - Oh, the horror! Zimmerman said that he believes that Martin doubled back on him and attacked him. There's not much evidence to support or refute that. I *DO* believe that Martin threw the first punch, since there is ZERO evidence that Zimmerman struck Martin even once, and plenty of evidence that Martin did strike Zimmerman. I don't think Martin knocked Zimmerman out (sorta hard to shoot someone while you're unconscious). So, the above is what YOU actually think that people like me think about this case? Where are you coming up with this garbage?
In light of the multiple stories of the "new black panther" party offering a 10k reward for Zimmerman's life......I just want to make sure that everybody knows that this so called "new black panther party" are a bunch of frauds. Members of the REAL black panther party have gone on records for years saying these guys are frauds.
Zimmerman made more than just 1 big mistake. He made several conscious and completely voluntarily negligent decisions that were clearly critical ingredients in a 17 year old ultimately losing his life: #1) Leaving his car as you say despite the 911 Operator's advice and Neighborhood Watch Protocol #2) Following TM on multiple occasions. Again, he received clear training from the Sanford PD specifically NOT to do this. And it's common sense that you are going to scare the crap out of someone if you do this and increase the chances of some kind of altercation between you and the person you are stalking. #3) Being Armed while acting as Neighborhood Watch. Again, he received clear training from the Sanford PD NOT to do this when the Neighborhood Watch Group was created. #4) Not informing TM he was simply a Neighborhood Watchman. Each of the above decisions by GZ may have been technically legal, but they violate the spirit of Self-Defense and each inflamed the situation. Odds are very strong that if he didn't run the table on these 4 decisions and went 2/4 or 3/4, no one dies. My main point here was that the set of facts here is FAR different than the typical set of facts in a classic self-defense case.
Zimmerman wasn't charged because the investigation led officers to believe - correctly - that there was insufficient evidence for a prosecution. It had *nothing* to do with race. Excuse me, but how exactly is race *not* going to be a factor when you are looking for someone who matches a certain physical description? That does not make it racist, it simply means you are looking for certain individuals who match a certain physical description. You cannot leave a person's race out of that equation. That is your opinion. I think you are wrong, because that is not how I - or any other white person I know, for that matter - thinks. You are free to your opinion, though, however erroneous it is.
All I know is this, if someone is following me, stalking me, I should have the right to punch the guy lights out. If some guy is chasing me I should be able to defend myself. I look at the facts: Zimmerman followed a kid he had no business following Zimmerman was told to stand down Zimmerman took it upon himself to continue following a kid anyways To me, as a human being, it means Zimmerman would have to deal with the consequences. He killed a kid. He pursued it and brought himself to a violent situation, he created a dangerous situation, it doesn't mean he has the right to shoot someone. Let's say a kid is playing with a dog. The kid keeps poking and prod-ing the dog. You tell the kid, "stop messing with him, he will bite you". Eventually the kid hits the dog with all his force and the dog bites back. Do you put the dog down? Zimmerman was poking and prod-ing Treyvon. Just because Treyvon bit him back doesn't mean Zimmerman has the right to shoot him. I don't care what the law says, I don't care about any of that, it's what we all know should be right.
