You are correct. Zimmerman could have identified himself or said something non confrontational, but I think you missed my point. This confrontation was over when Zimmerman was talking to the 911 operator. Trayvon ran away and then Zimmerman said he didn't know where Trayvon was. He knew the general direction and that direction was towards where Trayvon happened to be staying. Zimmerman was not going to be able to catch Trayvon. Something changed that allowed Zimmerman to get in range of Trayvon. Either he suddenly developed speed to find and catch up to Trayvon or Trayvon came back to him. Trayvon was a guy who liked to fight. This is pretty well known. To me it seems more likely that he went back to Zimmerman to confront him because I don't see how as unathletic as Zimmerman catches someone as athletic as Trayvon seemed to be. The problem was Zimmerman had a gun and didn't know how to fight. He was getting his ass beat on the sidewalk and didn't know what to do to escape or fight back. I don't think Trayvon was going to kill Zimmerman, but he thought he was gonnna die so he panics and shoots Trayvon. Fwiw this is a decent map of the events...
I think the problem is you assume Trayvon was running to get home instead of assuming he was running simply to get out of Zimmerman's view. Based on the evidence, he was walking home at a slow pace even before Zimmerman noticed him. My guess is once he turns into the T heading South, he thinks he's lost George and finds a place to hang out and talk to his friend but then George pops up again and the confrontation ensues. Remember that Jeantel testifies Trayvon told her he was tired. So it makes sense he'd find a place to collect himself if he thinks he's lost George. Another issue with the 'double back" theory is that Zimmerman had been trailing GZ in his car that night. They had seen each other in 2 different places. At that point, if you are TM, you know that the car has been moving to follow you. You know the guy following you has been mobile; he hasn't been in only one spot. So, what would make you think you'd even find him if you walked back towards the spot you had last seen him? Looking at that map, in fact, it would make more sense that GZ would probably have continued to drive South on Twin Trees Lane towards where Brandi Green lived. How could TM possibly know that GZ changed from a vehicular pursuit to a pursuit on foot? I disagree with your suggestion that "it's pretty well known Trayvon likes to fight". What is this based off of? Social media tweets? Contrast that with Zimmerman who we know not from social media but from police records had previous run-ins with the law including assault of a police officer. I put more weight on a criminal record than anything on social media. Zimmerman was also taking MMA training so he clearly had an interest in fighting even if the defense contends he "sucked at it". Anyway, even if Trayvon liked to fight, why does he not confront Zimmerman at the clubhouse? Or when he sees him later as Zimmerman continues to follow him in his car and he allegedly circles Zimmerman's car? He passes up 2 golden chances to confront/attack him, in fact running away at one point, only to do a complete mental 180 and confront him? Sorry; I'm not buying that. Who is more likely to be in a confrontational mindset? A) 17 year old on the phone with his friend walking home to watch an NBA All-Star Game? A 17 year old we know ran away from the 28 year old at some point. B) 28 year old neighborhood watchman who strongly believes the 17 year old is a criminal and that this criminal is an "*******/f'n punk" likely to get away if the police don't get here soon enough? If you take away that the 17 year old is black, I don't think you can honestly say that person A is logically more likely to be in a confrontational mindset. This is where I truly think racial biases manifest themselves in this case, even if they may not be conscious biases. Had TM not been black or male, but been a 17 year old female (any race but black) I do not believe you would assume she doubled back to attack the overzealous Neighborhood Watchman. I believe in that case most would think GZ's story was a bunch of self-serving BS and that he was guilty of at least Manslaughter.
I agree mostly, blacks rarely get the benefit of the doubt if the roles were reversed. I highly doubt you can find many unbiased black people in that area. I know I I'm having trouble finding any unbiased people where I'm at and on social networks. As others have said, we're using emotion over logic in this case (the emotion of how black people are almost always screwed over by the system ). True but it's an improper term, or better put, redundant. Hispanics are already considered white or black according to the census and Zimmerman is hardly the only Hispanic that is considered both white and Americanized.
I have not read the article, but the media reporting on this case is very incomplete. The main problem with case is the mandatory sentencing part of the law.
That's part of where this anger is coming from, it's not so much the verdict it's just this whole thing. It's baffling to me that another man can kill another man and the police just release the killer the same day. You're right. That's the point though, people are racially biased even if they don't admit it. It's proven you are more like to feel sympathy for someone you look like. There is a reason why so many asian NBA fans love Jeremy Lin, it's not because he's a top 10 PG either. It doesn't make anyone racist. Someone made a really good point about it, it doesn't have to be so black and white. You're either racist or not. There is a lot of things that fall between that good and evil spectrum. You can stereotype people, you can be prejudiced, and what not. It's not that those jurors are racist, it's just that they'll see things from Zimmerman's POV before they will from Trayvon's. B37 is proof of this. That is what I'm saying. Some would have you believe that it's something made up or imaginary. That Zimmerman is just Hispanic, not white. I don't know how redundant it is, most people identify themselves as their nationality/race. Sometimes that nationality can be interchangeable with a culture. Like being Hispanic...or black... Not like it would matter either way. I don't see the big point in it. Most people that bring it up. "He was Hispanic!" say it like Hispanics can't be racist or something
I don't like his delivery or language use but still...preach: Spoiler <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/2sL2f0PoqME?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Your failure to comprehend that the lack of common sense in what was a major point the prosecution tried to make on the jury is hysterical. The prosecution did not bother to use your cant assault someone while you are on the phone because that was even dumber than what they used in court.
As usual, you are spouting blatant BS. The prosecution DID indeed mention the lack of logic inherent in initiating an assault while on the phone. This was mentioned by prosecutor John Guy in his rebuttal statement. Clearly you aren't the legal expert here, but generally speaking you use your rebuttal and closing statements to highlight the strong points of your case. I guess they were idiots too because they did use it. Did you actually watch any of the trial? Just go back to talking about the mar1juana use of a 17 year old as if it's somehow relevant. You do better at that at any sort of intellectual discoure about facts, mainly because you are either ignorant about the facts or willfully ignore them.
Maybe I am letting my experiences as a teen cloud my judgement too much. To me it's just really hard to understand how Trayvon couldn't have got away if he wanted to if he was that threatened or how the situation couldn't have been diffused even if Zimmerman was acting like a big dick. Had Trayvon been a female there wouldn't had been an issue. A woman would have handled the situation completely differently than a male would. I think both parties escalated the situation. Even if someone is confrontational with you it doesn't mean you have to be confrontational with them. Lastly, this MMA training aspect you mention is kind of weak. I mean I do some Brazilian Jiujitsu and some self defense stuff and anyone who has any kind of decent training would have likely not been in the situation Zimmerman put himself in. Also, they probably would have know how to neutralize the opponent for a bit and likely would have know how to escape a full mount attack and probably even been able to reverse the position. Again maybe I am thinking too much from how I would handle the situation, but that's how I see it.
Bull*hit. If that is the sort of logic we're going to follow then President Obama is a "white African-American". Culturally, he is a white man. He was raised by a white mother and only speaks like a black man when he's pandering. He is fully immersed in white culture, yet he is actually a (half) black man. You choose one or the other. Zimmerman chose hispanic. He is hispanic. Your pathetic attempts to call him white are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to blame Martin's death on white culture. THAT is exactly the sort of thing that animates white people to argue so strongly about this. The absurdity, that is.[/QUOTE] Well said!! I agree! The only people making this racial are black racist.
Bull*hit. If that is the sort of logic we're going to follow then President Obama is a "white African-American". Culturally, he is a white man. He was raised by a white mother and only speaks like a black man when he's pandering. He is fully immersed in white culture, yet he is actually a (half) black man. You choose one or the other. Zimmerman chose hispanic. He is hispanic. Your pathetic attempts to call him white are nothing more than thinly veiled attempts to blame Martin's death on white culture. THAT is exactly the sort of thing that animates white people to argue so strongly about this. The absurdity, that is.[/QUOTE] Michael Moore the epitome of liberal ignorance.
This is the explanation that I think fits best. Unfortunate confluence of events. Bonus points for displaying the map for context.
Really? So this whole Trayvon Martin event has NOTHING at all to do with race? Nothing? The fact GZ was released the same day after killing a man. The fact that GZ did profile Trayvon on Race (His own Attorney says this on the view, that race was part of the profile but not the sole reason) The fact that these cases continue to pop up about how self defense and SYG seems more likely to be justified if you're white? Also it's more than just black people saying there is race involved here too. So you're wrong that only black racist are making this about race.
Well said!! I agree! The only people making this racial are black racist.[/QUOTE] I'm white and I think this whole thing is extremely racist. The fact that you think this issue is divided simply between "the white view" and "the black view" is extremely ignorant.
In my experience there are many black people that make it about "us vs them". And it is so irritating when black people throw the race card when they feel they are on the losing end. Here is a classic example: <object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/xdvmj1tVE2U?hl=en_US&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/xdvmj1tVE2U?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
Why do people still care about this? People kill and get away with it every minute. Basically what happened, no matter what you GZ fanboys want to believe.
But no one cares about Floyd that much. If someone doesn't like Floyd because he's black who cares? Of course some people are not going to like Floyd because he's black...but it doesn't effect anything or anyone. Making sure the Criminal Justice System is fair to all people...now that is something that affects us all. So I agree, throwing out the race card for something as trivial as what Floyd is doing "Oh you don't like me because you're white!" no one cares about that. Floyd is pretty close to being a racist anyways. Throwing out the race card and saying "The Criminal Justice System doesn't work the same for black people." is something that should be listened to and not just tossed aside as nothing.
