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Do not need stretch 4 or 3 pt specialist

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by CARoxNut, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. WinkFan

    WinkFan Member

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    We're not here to hold your hand. Do a little research.
     
  2. baller4life315

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    SMH at telling the people that run this website to "get educated"...

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    The Barkley/Drexler/Olajuwon or wait, was it the Barkley/Pippen/Olajuwon trio that was notorious for having spacing issues? Either way, it was clear CD wasn't running any analytics.
     
  4. fattz

    fattz Member

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    The rules have changed over the years, but even back then




    Otis got most of his points in the first few moments of the game when Olajuwon was triple teamed then in transition. The knock on him - he disappeared at times - no Dream started to play inside and Otis didn't have that strong of an outside as Dream did ie Dreamshake - that is were Bullard comes in play - spacing. The Twin Towers worked because both could play 15 feet out and off the ball - aka franchise players.

    Both Jones and D-Mo can play all the way out to the three point line if needed. Jones is the answer with D-Mo of the bench for 15-20 minutes a night. A lot like OT points at the start of the game Howard with make them both better.
     
  5. pwnyxpress

    pwnyxpress Member

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    A Stretch 4 is a PF that can space the floor, generally seen as a player that can shoot the 3 OR midrange shot, i.e., your 16-23 ft. 24 ft would be a 3 pointer btw, and being able to regularly make 15 footers would totally qualify as a stretch 4.

    For example, Aldridge pretty much NEVER shoots the 3, but regularly takes shots at 16-23 ft or 10-15 ft, and he is definitely classified as a stretch 4.
     
  6. pwnyxpress

    pwnyxpress Member

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    Math. It is much more efficient to shoot the 3 than the midrange 2 because the 3 obviously has a bigger payout. As such, you don't even need to shoot it at as high a clip as the 2 to get more points. I am not doing the math right now, but it'd be something like 38% at the 3 pt range means you'd have to shoot like 49% at midrange jumpers or something, so unless you're an above 50% midrange shooter (very few are), then the 3 pt shot at 38% would be better as it yields more points.
     
  7. WinkFan

    WinkFan Member

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    38% from 3 pt range is equivalent to 57% from 2 pt range. Nobody shoots 57% from midrange.
     
  8. Harden13

    Harden13 Member

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    I feel like Jones will take the three shot but really never goes for the mid range jump shot...
     
  9. Harden13

    Harden13 Member

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    That Olinyk kid on the celtics shot 60%+ career in college and is doing it in the summer league right now. Pretty good for a 7 footer. He's going to have a great career.
     
  10. t0mdotcom

    t0mdotcom Member

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    Ryan Andersons Shot Chart
    [​IMG]

    This is a good idea of what a stretch 4 is.
     
  11. infinitidoug

    infinitidoug Member

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    There's nothing wrong with going in-between every now and then :p:grin:;):cool:
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Even if we had a 4 who couldn't shoot the 3, having a respectable mid-range jumper would still help create some space for Howard (and the slashers) because his defender won't be able to help in the paint as much. And Asik doesn't have a mid-range shot (much less from 3). Whether you want to call a stretch-4 someone who can shoot the 3 or the midrange, we do need a PF who can shoot from somewhere outside the paint, which is not Asik. Howard might be able to do PnR with Asik on the floor, but a Howard post-up won't be very effective with Asik in the game, unless Asik can find a spot on the floor from which he can hit a jumper.
     
  13. CertifiedTroll

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    Posting to test and see what player my reputation is marked as.
     
  14. TechieOne

    TechieOne Member

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    Defenses are allowed to zone up now vs before where they had to stay close to their man. Offensive teams could ISO one guy much easier in the past than now.
     
  15. WinkFan

    WinkFan Member

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    I'm going to guess his overall percentage is higher than his percentage from 15-23 feet, and also that his midrange percentage is less than 57%.
     
  16. Sanity2disChaos

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    Either you are horrible at math or really suck at playing basketball.....The 2 point shot is an "easy bucket" and high percentage shot compared to the 3 and most educated coaches would say the same.Point period.
     
  17. Nubmonger

    Nubmonger Member

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    To elaborate on pwnyxpress's point, it's much easier to just think about it in terms of Points-Per-Possession.

    2-pointer @ 50% = 1 PPP
    3-pointer @ 33.3% = ~1 PPP

    Basically, a 33.3% 3-point shot is equivalent to 50% shooting on the floor (ignoring fouls/free throws).

    If we look at this issue specifically, the long 2-pointer vs. the 3-pointer, then the numbers become pretty clear:

    2 Points @ 38% = 0.76 PPP [league average FG% for 16-23 feet from the basket]
    3 Points @ 35% = 1.05 PPP [league average 3-Point %]

    In fact, the numbers are pretty clear that you should always shoot the three unless you are right next to the basket and/or have a high chance of getting fouled (see: James Harden as the perfect embodiment of both). This is why even a great "stretch" player is pretty much a negative value on the offense, because even at 50% (a fantastic shooting percentage at those distances) you are better off just giving the ball to a guard who is behind the 3-point line. That value of the extra point overwhelms the slightly lower shot percentage.
     
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  18. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    The stats are accurate. Of course being the 2nd leading 3 point shooter on those Celtics team meant that McHale took 69 3 pointers one season and 37 the next. It's a different era. Teams didn't take advantage of the efficiency of the 3 point shot and strategize around it back then. Now, life in the NBA is "Live by the 3, or Die" (A good discussion of the issue is here: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/60723/live-by-the-3-or-die). A big part of the evolution, by the way, probably happened in the mid-1990s with how teams like the Rockets began using guys like Robert Horry.

    But anyhow: Within the context of the 1989-91 seasons, McHale was a frequent 3 point shooter for a big man. This is why, Dennis Scott, a man who is certainly familiar with the 3 point shot and the NBA back in the days, called Kevin McHale "The Original Spread 4" on a recent NBATV broadcast of a Rockets summer league game. McHale may be there in the early part of the 3 pointer revolution and was a caveman version of the spread 4, but he was one.
     
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  19. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    I agree the first part of the Op's post, 2nd part not so much.

    We do in fact already have several strech 4s on the team, these are DMo, Parsons and Garcia. It may seem weird that Parsons and Garcia are stretch 4s but if youre gonna be a stretch guy you're gonna be on the perimeter, and if youre gonna be on the perimeter might as well be a perimeter guy.

    We dont need a mdrange guy, because the mid range shot is a horrible shot which can destroy team offenses. It promotes laziness, instead of going for the and1 or crashing the boards you shoot the mid range. Your bigs will seal their man and ask for the ball oops! You shot the mid range. Your sg loses his on a screen and is open for the 3, oops! You shot the mid range. And because the mid range is something you can take whenever you like and whether or not its contested, everyone startsfollowing suit and chucking mid range Js. Ever wonder why guys like Melo or Ai or Kobe are called ballhogs and cant seem to get their teammates involved? Its because their mid range game starts bringing the offense down.
     
  20. jch1911

    jch1911 Member

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    Where is the applause button?
     

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