Codell, Great objective post and analysis. To your point on #4, I would say it cuts both ways. If Martin was hellbent on initiating a violent confrontation with Zimmerman, why was his initial reaction to run away from Zimmerman? If he truly did circle his car, why didn't he confront him right then? Why did he run away? Why would Martin be on the phone talking to a friend WHILE initiating a confrontation? That just seems illogical. I think you hit the nail on the head. What really escalated this situation is the verbal exchange that likely occurred between the 2. We'll never know what was said, but I believe a few of the witnesses have testified that they heard loud arguing between 2 people. My guess is that Zimmerman accused Martin more or less of being a criminal and that really set Martin off. What we know for sure is that Zimmerman did not disclose that he was a Neighborhood Watch member. Why he wouldn't do this if he truly had no ill intentions is a headscratcher. He admitted this to police officers and it's one of the objective facts which points to culpable negligence and thus manslaughter. It's also quite possible Martin died falsely thinking that Zimmerman was a rapist or a robber. When you are being followed late at night on multiple occasions by a complete stranger, most would think they were about to be mugged or robbed. Who in that situation would honestly think "Oh, I'm sure it's just a friendly neighborhood watch control man. Let me just stop so he can catch up to me"
Depends on the situation. If they were standing up and trading punch for punch on each other, then I think you have a great point. That is not applicable here. All evidence that I have seen/heard at this point show this was a one-sided fight. Zimmerman was mounted by Martin and was getting beat up. Again, testimony is key here. A self defense expert said he felt Zimmerman had no other options to stop the attack. If he can't stop the attack, then he could definitely have sustained great bodily harm (I do agree agree that I don't think he could have died, but I don't think you can rule that out entirely). IMO, it was a very smart question to get in front of the jury. Yes, his injuries were relatively minor, but there is no question that repeated blows to his head could have led to more serious injury if the blows didn't stop. Listen to testimony and evidence though. It wasn't just the punches, it was Zimmerman's head hitting the concrete several times. This is another issue I have with Zimmerman. I don't believe Martin was physically grabbing his head and slamming it into the concrete as Zimmerman had alleged, but I do believe the punches to his face were causing his head to snap back and impact the sidewalk. That's not what the law says. I don't see how any self defense law would ever be written/re-written that way. It's basically saying that if someone is kicking your ass with their fists, and you have no way to defend yourself with your own peripherals, then you are just going to have to sit there and take a beating and hope your injuries are not that severe. That isn't fair IMO.
Why didn't Martin keep running home? He told his friend on the phone he was almost home. Looking at the map, his home didn't appear to be too far from the T intersection where the altercation occurred. Zimmerman says on the phone that while still in his car, he lost sight of Martin at near that T intersection. Seems to support that for whatever reason, Martin stopped and waited (not saying ambushed or whatever) for Zimmerman after he got out of his car and followed him. That is if you believe Rachel Jantel's testimony. She had her own inconsistencies in this case. Doesn't give Martin the right to attack him though. And we can also assume that Martin didn't disclose himself as a resident. It's important to take the perspective of both sides. Yes, if Zimmerman had identified himself as neighborhood watch AND/OR if Martin had identified as a resident, then I doubt any physical confrontation even starts. If I understand manslaughter correctly, that would be Zimmerman having ill will and intent to kill with mitigating circumstances or whatnot. Zimmerman was trained as a neighborhood watch, but he wasn't trained to confront and identify. Overall, I just don't see anything other than self defense here. And this would not be cause for Martin attack Zimmerman just like there was not cause for Zimmerman to attack Martin because he thought he was a criminal. The timeline shows this appears to be what happened though. Why he stopped and waited for Zimmerman, who knows.
Anyway, don't want to engage in a back and forth. Just wanted to share what I felt was a fairly neutral perspective since I have had a better opportunity than others to take in the trial. All that matters here, IMO, is who started the physical confrontation and was Zimmerman in fear of his life? We'll never know who started it but those screams legitimately sounded like someone who thought they were in danger. A lot of fear and stress in those screams.
Manslaughter and aggregated assault are the two other charges that Zimmerman could get convicted on I believe I heard on NPR(unless I heard it wrong). I don't think he will get convicted on murder II but there are good chances he will be convicted on either of the other charges.
Can you be convicted of Manslaughter if you were charged with Murder? I don't think so... Probably you could cop a plea to a lesser charge if you felt likely to be convicted but I don't think you can actually be "convicted" of a crime that you were not charged with.
Yeah that's weird, seems like a pure either or in this case. Like manslaughter would have needed a completely different prosecution strategy.
While I think it is reasonable for a lesser charge to be available, I too thought you couldn't do that.
What kind of riots are you expecting? I expect a lot of complaining, and maybe some protesting, but that is about it. This isn't Rodney King.
In many jurisdictions the prosecution is allowed to ask the judge to allow a jury to include lesser charges in addition to the charge they file. In this case the judge ruled this morning to allow the jury to consider lesser offenses if they acquit on murder. While at first blush that is a "have your cake and eat it to" situation that sucks for the defense, I'm fine with it. Justice shouldn't be sacrificed because of an overcharge. He still might walk on all of it though.
One would HOPE this wouldn't be the case, but I can't help but wonder if the verdict would be different if the prosecution were allowed to instruct the jury like McConaughey did in A Time To Kill ("now imagine she's white"):
You never would have heard about it because the media wouldn't be that interested in a black kid killing a hispanic kid. Or to use CNN's new way to describe Zimmerman, a "White Hispanic." I wonder what our White African American President thinks of this case? lol (The knock isn't on Obama here it's on CNN. As bad or worse than Fox? Debatable) Edit: Also, neither of the two ACTUAL members of the incident looked like they do in those pictures at the time it happened. Zimmerman's picture was artificially lightened to make him look whiter, and as well all know, the picture of Trayvon wasn't close to being recent.
Looks like the judge is going to allow Zimmerman to be charged with manslaughter in addition to the second degree murder charge. The judge could still come back and allowed a third degree felony murder charge as well which is a lesser crime than the second degree murder charge.
And so it begins....Dumbasses call in bomb threat to the Civil Court in Sanford not realizing the Zimmerman case is in the Criminal Court. That doesn't surprise me since Martin supporters rarely pay attention to relevant details. http://t.co/ZFMtQKcOX7
Are you certain the threat was called in because of the Zimmerman trial? There are bomb threats everywhere, every day, hell we had one in my work building the other day. Don't attribute to the case unless you can prove it.
