^Agree 100%. Side note... "LOH": (population 1%) aka "Haters!" Reality... "LOFH". They act like they hate Lin to piss off his certain fans who expect special treatment while constantly crapping on Harden the gang sign throwing greedy ballhog /Bev the try-too-hard to make Lin look bad, dirty fouler /Mchale the Lin-hating racist, who only wants blacks with beards, to succeed /Asik The Stone Handed Assist Taker Awayer "ABJ": (population: 1%) Failed attempt to re-label "LOH", but sounds just as, if not more, goofy. Reality: ...Would only take Earl Watson, Ronny Price, or Cory Joseph over Lin, if that meant his worst fans would go pollute another team forum. "LOF": (population: 10%) "Lin only, eff tha rest!" Reality: ..."Lin only, eff tha rest!" Rockets fans: (88%) End up fighting each other because of the inflammatory no b-ball IQ having, zero stat backed, "eye test" failing, hyperbolic, unrealistic, idiotic, one liners posted by above groups. TL;DR <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/98557297@N08/9250038946/" title="lofloh by jocarlo875, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2832/9250038946_74ab968277_o.gif" width="250" height="205" alt="lofloh"></a>
if they're gonna do this, they need to do this now. you sell it as $10mil/yr for a promising starting pg. still pricey but not as bad as $15mil/yr and at 5mil this year he's a bargain. however, if you don't do this now, next year he'd be a $15mil/yr rental, which i'm sure no owner would be willing to pay for.
This exactly, we're taking a huge risk. While i would like to see Lin as the 6th man, when his contract comes into terms, i rather he be traded. Because if he does have a bad season coming up, no one will take him and we're stuck with him and the increase poison pill. Which could hinder us from trying to grow the team. If Lin stays, for the sake of the team i hope he does well this season so we can get a championship, but i would feel a lot more safe if we did move him.
i agree with you three strengths - shooting, defense, and passing. (by the way isn't that everything??) and you cited PB? PB has the defense BUT give him starter minutes and he fouls out, and gives up 20pt/gm to a backup pg on OKC. i think PB's defensive style fits a certain role as an energy guy that disrupts the flow of the opposing offense but is not sustainable as starter minutes. let's see how much pressure he puts on the ball in starter minutes while being able to stay on the floor. and bev is not a better shooter and passer. we all forget that he went a few games scoring zero points, and as a starter, averaged 2 assists/gm against OKC's backup PG. i tend to think lin's D is better than mediocre - he was one of 20 candidates for defensive player of the year as ranked by nba.com last year, so he must be doing something right. put him one on one against rose and westbrook? no he can't stop them cold. not many people can. but he does play very effective team D and i think once our team D improves everyone's D will improve as well, including lin. as for fit - i see you point. i think someone like ben gordon would be a good fit. but, i also saw games last year where lin and harden were clicking and pretty much unstoppable. i'm not ready to give up on that potential, yet.
None of these arguments are going to change either sides' opinions. The only sure way to do it is to ship him off to a team that will let him play PG. Then one side can say 'I told you so' to the other side.
Let me be more precise: - 3 point shooting. - On the ball defensive pressure - Assists That's our needs from a PG in order of importance. Why? because we have James Harden and Dwight Howard which shifts the focus from the PG creating shots for others to having a PG that can hit the 3 and slow down the other PG. Lin's ability to generate assists from penetration is important, but not as much as his ability to put pressure on the ball and hit a trey. This is why PB gets minutes in crunch time, because his ability to put pressure on the ball exceeds Lin's ability to hit the 3 point shot late in the game. So things like penetration, attacking the rim, & rebounding become a bit less critical in our system. They are still important, but we have other players who are very good at that. I can't speak for what nba.com says. Lin works hard on D, for sure. And I think his ranking is high for his steals. He's good at that for sure. But when you look at the way he plays D, he really doesn't disrupt the opposing teams offense all that much. He's not a guy who makes the entry pass more difficult. He isn't forcing the opposing PG to take time off the clock and therefore putting pressure on the entire opposing team to score with less time. These are the things I am talking about. Like I said, if Lin can hit the 3 at 40%, he's got the starting PG role locked down. The ball is going to swing to him a lot more often if he can do that. It will open up the rest of his game too, and it will help Harden, Parsons, and Dwight as well as it increases the spacing. If Lin were to do one thing this summer and one thing only, it would be to improve his 3 point shooting to get to that magical 40% marker. You do that, and his defense becomes moot, his value on offense is completely solidified and you will see him get the majority of crunch time minutes.
this is a very fair take. appreciate the well thought-out response. and yes, i agree that if he can up the 3%, it makes the entire team that much more dangerous.
You're are exaggerating PB's playing crunch time minutes. He really didn't in many game. Lin closed out the majority of close games. The complaints from fans made it seemed like it was many more games than reality.
I definitely see where you're coming from and it is reasoned out, but I disagree with you on what we need in a pg. I mean of course a deadly 3 pt shot having defensive hawk is always great to have but it's almost as if you chose the weaknesses you perceive in Lin or that's been popular to say and decided that that's what we need in a pg, something Lin didn't provide.. Were there no Lin, what we would need is a floor general who can get the ball to Dwight, Harden, and Parsons while leading a fast up-tempo attacking offense to achieve the high octane offense we are shooting for first and foremost. This is without a doubt the most important need from the 1. Lin is that guy. Without Lin, believe it or not, our offense would have been bogged down and become stagnant. There was plenty of evidence last year to suggest so, even though Lin was inconsistent for much of the season. I guess it's the grass is greener on the other side effect. Secondly, youre right. We would want a dead eye 3 pt shooter (actually at every position even including the 4 position) to capitalize on our two headed double team demanding monsters of Harden and Howard. I guess this is where a stretch 4 would come in handy after all, though I'm not the biggest fan of that concept and have never used a big as a perimeter player in all my years of coaching or playing the pg position. But I realize that I'm wrong in that regard. Anyways, Lin needs to step up his 3 pt% as well as all our players. Dwight's gonna get us a lot of kick outs 3s and swing swing penetration opportunities. All our boys especially the 1,2,3 must be great at swinging he back, shooting the three, and penetrating when the defense rushes out to pressure the 3 ball. Third, we need a defender who's going to get a lot of steals, deflections , and cause a lot of havoc out there as our offense is predicated upon our defense creating fast break opportunities. I don't get the infatuation with on ball pressure. Of course it's necessary in moments when we need to change tempo, put the smash down, and whenever, but in general, it is a waste of energy and it would be near impossible to apply that much pressure while having enough for offense. And if you're going to say that that's what hardens for. Please see the above comments again. Harden cannot run the offense as well as a true pg, simple as that. And although Lin may have trouble wih his handles at times and what have you, he's a true point. One with speed, vision, and a willingness to distribute to the right people, getting everyone involved. Bev is great. I loved him as early as the first game he played for us. He was like TD, but with better pg instincts. And he's shown himself to be tenacious and athletic. But court vision, leading an offense, these are the things Bev must master of he wants to be a starting pg someday, not just pressuring the ball. Lin, on the other hand, needs to continue to lead an aggressive fast tempo offense, improve his shooting, and get as many deflections, steals, rebounds as possible, while not gambling. And though I don't think Lins been as bad as people on here claim, he should definitely learn to better stay in front of speedy guards by any means necessary. His defense is good but he should be great considering his foot speed, hand speed, and anticipation. One more thing, when we played poorly last year or when we lost, what was the reason? Speedy guards penetrating too much?? No. It wa a stagnant iso happy offense late in games and setimeamonthe enotire 4th quarter. Secondly, it was the rebounding differential when Omer sat. It was not a lack of 3 pointers or an inability to contain pgs. It was bad execution on the fourth quarter, especially when our shots weren't dropping. Having Dwight will definitely take pressure off our perimeter players so I'm hoping for a great season not a few years from now, but now. This year.
Who do you see that is acquirable that we could get to supplement Beverley that meets the criteria: - 3 point shooting. - On the ball defensive pressure - high assist/turnover ratio ??
We're looking for a pg that can shoot the 3 ball and doesn't turn the ball over. And that guy would be Daniel Gibson. You have PB for the defensive pressure when you want to apply it. And the assists part, well, you have Harden then basically becoming the primary assist guy. But we aren't going to upgrade over Lin. Lin doesn't get moved for another PG, he gets moved if we package him with Asik to get a 4. But I doubt that is going to happen from what I hear and read. That's why Lin has a chance to be the starter for good if he can get that 3 point shot down.
I agree that Lin is a solid floor general and that is a good quality of his that will only grow. But our offense doesn't depend on it as much as Parsons, Harden, and others can handle the ball pretty well and make smart decisions. Lin is the best passer on the team, but the offensive is never going to be able putting the ball in Lin's hands to create. It's just the wrong team for that. And that's what a lot of Lin fan's have to understand. McHale is building an offense that is built around Harden's talents, not Lins. And now we have the best center in the league, so that is going to put more focus on getting him shots. So now more than ever, Lin's role is to be a spacer who hits the 3. Yes, a point guard who can also run the offense at times and penetrate and make passes - that's all good. But only if he can make that 3 will all of that get unleashed. At the end of the day, it's a balancing act. Everyone wins when you can put the defense in a tough position. Last year our issue on offense wasn't stagnation as much as it is that the middle of the paint was blocked up to take away penetration forcing us to be a jump shooting team or hope we get fouled. With Howard, that creates more inside outside balance. But to maximize that balance and force defenses into tough decisions, you have to punish a defense that overplays Harden and Howard in zones. You do that with a stretch 4 and a a good 3 point shooting pg and 3 point shooting 3. You have that in Parsons. We need that in Lin. When Lin starts hitting 40% what's going to happen is that Harden and Howard will have more room to operate. Also, it will open up the driving lane for Lin as well and he can create more. But only if he starts knocking down 3's so opponents have to run at him when the ball gets kicked out or swung to him. 3 point shooting isn't Lins biggest weakness. He's an average 3 point shooter. It's just that he needs to be a great 3 point shooter. If he can do that, and package his other skills with that, he'll be a great pg for us in the long term.
Dude that's not even the issue for the Houston Rockets. The question is how Houston is going to incorporate Howard's need to slow down the game for offensive possessions with the fact that Houston had among the lowest, if not the lowest % of scoring possessions from paint post up plays with this current roster. Howard is a great center but isn't the best offensive center in the league. The question remains, if McHale has the balls to motivate Howard on defense & on the boards but gets him to accept that the offense runs through Harden & the wings in an up and down tempo then Houston has a chance to meet some of the expectations that you all are putting on them. If that happens then Lin will have opportunities to create and get into the paint, run pick and rolls and generally be more useful than he has been. If they don't do that and decide to go with the Dwight Howard show then it's not going to be Jeremy Lin that's the problem but a world of hurt for the Houston Rockets and Dwightmare IV down the road in two years. It seems like priority 1 on this forum is Lin 24/7 because as you guys might or might not know WWIII is coming down the road and, you know, China. But honestly if y'all are talking Lin in March thank the basketball gods because it means that Morey and McHale have figured out the huge gorilla in the room, which is how to basically get Howard to play a different type of offensive game than he's ever played. And assuming Houston gets to that point, then there's going to be a lot of synergy between Howard and Lin. Howard shores up a lot of Lin's gambling tendencies on defense and both Harden and Lin will be deadly with a properly run pick and roll with Dwight which will be devastating to teams particularly in the playoffs. The bit about Lin's shooting I think you are right. But it's only logical to expect that Lin's spot up 3 gets better like for most NBA players who work on it into the middle stretch of their careers.
this is pretty spot on. and by all accounts, howard did not like playing pnr with nash, one of the best pnr players out there. that is a bit troubling. we'll see how this all comes together. if howard insists on playing like the dream with post moves and what not (he doesn't have any), we're in a big surprise, and it's not going to be a good one. as i mentioned in another thread - i predict our offense to slow down quite a bit and as a result, decrease in scoring. i just hope that our D improves more than enough to cover for decrease in scoring.
