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Edward Snowden on the Move

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I figure Edward Snowden might deserve his own thread since he is as much of the story as what he is revealing now.

    CNN is saying he is seeking asylum in Ecuador but other sources I have heard say he is planning on going to Venezuala

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/23/politics/nsa-leaks

    Snowden on the run, seeks asylum in Ecuador

    Moscow (CNN) -- Ex-National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden has asked for asylum in Ecuador, the South American country's foreign ministry announced Sunday as the United States urged countries to rebuff the leaker.

    Snowden's story took a dramatic turn Sunday when he flew from Hong Kong to Moscow, aided by the international anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks. The group reported that Snowden had touched down in Moscow, and CNN spotted a car with diplomatic plates and an Ecuadorian flag at Moscow's international airport.

    But WikiLeaks, which facilitates the publication of classified information and says it's helping Snowden, did not disclose what country would be his final destination.

    The United States is asking Cuba, Ecuador and Venezuela not to let in Edward Snowden, who leaked information about NSA surveillance programs, a senior administration official told CNN on Sunday. The United States also is asking those countries -- rumored to be possible final destinations for Snowden -- to expel him if they do admit him, the official said.

    Snowden took off not long after the United States asked Hong Kong to extradite the former National Security Agency contractor on espionage charges. The Reuters news agency reported that Ecuadorian Ambassador Patricio Alberto Chavez Zavala said he was entering a Moscow airport hotel to talk to Snowden.

    Word of Snowden's travels touched off widespread speculation about the former NSA contractor's next steps. Some media reports suggested that he could be traveling to Ecuador, Venezuela or Cuba. Some passengers at the airport said it appeared he was whisked away in a diplomatic car. Other reports said he might spend the night in an embassy in Moscow or at an airport hotel.

    But no one -- or at least no one speaking out publicly on Sunday -- could say for sure exactly where Snowden was or where he will go next.

    The global guessing game has placed WikiLeaks in the international spotlight once again, as the organization revealed in a series of online posts that it was helping Snowden leave Hong Kong and seek "political asylum in a democratic country."

    Baltasar Garzon, a former Spanish judge and the organization's legal director, said in a statement Sunday that the treatment of Snowden has been "an assault against the people."

    "The WikiLeaks legal team and I are interested in preserving Mr. Snowden's rights and protecting him as a person," he said.

    Snowden, who leaked top-secret details about U.S. surveillance programs, left Hong Kong on Sunday "through a lawful and normal channel," the Hong Kong government said.

    In a statement Sunday, Justice Department spokeswoman Nanda Chitre said Hong Kong authorities had informed U.S. officials of Snowden's departure.

    "We will continue to discuss this matter with Hong Kong and pursue relevant law enforcement cooperation with other countries where Mr. Snowden may be attempting to travel," she said.

    Hong Kong: Extradition request didn't comply with requirements

    The U.S. government had also asked Hong Kong to issue a provisional arrest warrant for Snowden, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region said in a statement.

    But HKSAR officials said there were problems with the request.

    "Since the documents provided by the U.S. government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR government has requested the U.S. government to provide additional information," Hong Kong officials said.

    Because Hong Kong didn't have enough information, "there is no legal basis to restrict Mr. Snowden from leaving Hong Kong," the government said.

    A Justice Department official said Sunday that the United States had met requirements with its request, disputing the assertion from authorities in Hong Kong.

    "They came back to us with a few questions late Friday and we were in the process of answering those questions," the official said. "We believe we were meeting those requirements. As far as the relationship with Hong Kong goes, this raises questions and we will continue to discuss with authorities there."

    Hong Kong's lack of intervention came after Snowden told the Souh China Morning Post that U.S. intelligence agents have been hacking computer networks in Hong Kong and mainland China for years.

    Hong Kong said it wanted to have some words with the United States about that.

    "The HKSAR government has formally written to the U.S. government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by U.S. government agencies," Hong Kong officials said in the same statement. "The HKSAR government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong."

    The charges

    U.S. federal prosecutors have charged Snowden with theft of government property, unauthorized communication of national defense information, and willful communication of classified communications intelligence to an unauthorized person.

    The latter two allegations amount to espionage under the federal Espionage Act.

    News of Snowden's departure followed a day of intense speculation over whether Hong Kong would extradite him to the United States.

    Hong Kong Executive Council member Regina Ip said authorities could arrest Snowden if his actions qualify as criminal under Hong Kong law, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reported earlier Sunday. The executive council decides on policy matters for Hong Kong, a special administrative region of China.

    But if the charges against him were deemed to be political in nature, the 30-year-old would not be extradited, Ip told Xinhua.

    How the case unfolded

    Snowden has admitted in interviews he was the source behind the leaking of classified documents about the NSA's surveillance programs. Those leaks were the basis of reports in Britain's Guardian newspaper and The Washington Post this month. The Guardian revealed Snowden's identify at his request.

    The documents revealed the existence of programs that collect records of domestic telephone calls in the United States and monitor the Internet activity of overseas residents.

    The revelation of the leaks rocked the Obama administration and U.S. intelligence community, raising questions about secret operations of the NSA and whether the agency was infringing on American civil liberties.

    President Barack Obama, top legislators and national security officials defend the surveillance programs as necessary to combat terrorism and argue that some privacy must be sacrificed in a balanced approach.

    They say the law allows collection of metadata, such as the time and numbers of phone calls, and that a special federal court must approve accessing the content -- listening to the call itself.

    In interviews this month, Snowden said he fled with the classified documents after taking a leave of absence from his job as an intelligence analyst for NSA contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. The company has since fired him.

    A series of blog posts this week purportedly by Snowden said he leaked classified details about U.S. surveillance programs because Obama worsened "abusive" practices, instead of curtailing them as he promised as a candidate.

    Snowden said that he had to get out of the United States before the leaks were published by the Guardian and The Washington Post to avoid being targeted by the government.
     
  2. SunsRocketsfan

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    I bet they are going to make a movie on this
     
  3. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Why not just stay in Russia? They have no extradition treaty with the US, it's a lot easier to hide from bounty hunters/US law enforcement, and the quality of life is higher than Cuba, Ecuador or Venezuela. Plus the Russians have already offered.
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    he was living in hawaii.....10 months of winter can't be all that appealing :grin:
     
  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    More at link.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-julian-assange
     
  7. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Sochi isn't so bad. It's a big country :)
     
  8. SunsRocketsfan

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    Plus they have some hot chicks
     
  9. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Yeah, but so does Venezuela and Cuba.
     
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I guess because Ecuador is in South America? In a way, the entire region would serve as protection to him.

    Russia on the other hand may be more likely to ask him to give them information or be handed over without an extradition request.
     
  11. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    That's what I don't get...according to wikipedia, Ecuador and Venezuela DO have extradition treaties with the US.

    Plus they don't seem like the kind of places that can offer much protection...Cuba, yes, and it has a history of taking Americans on the run, but I'd take Russia any day. I like toilet paper and Internet access.

     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Russia has that corrupt police state vibe in them.

    While it makes sense on the surface, I still feel very uncomfortable reading how being a whistleblower to the media is considered espionage.
     
  13. SuperHighFly

    SuperHighFly Member

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    Sarah Palin:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KiLxP3lxgy8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  14. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Yes, but probably not as bad as Cuba or Venezuela! And there's plenty of room to hide in and places to go.

    Not just espionage...TREASON! Plus, the whole affair is even more embarrassing to the UK than it is the US, which seems to be an even more severe surveillance state. I'm sure they want him caught as well and would go after him in places the US can't.
     
  15. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    Looks like he is headed for Ecuador. USA revoked his passport but may not matter if officials want to give him asylum.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Mmmm... it may be a case of Ecuador's interpretation of the treaty is a better bet than Russia's behavior without a treaty.

    The structure and application of extradition treaties is not consistent from the few times I've read about them.
     
  17. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    That could be. I guess Vladimir Putin wouldn't be the first person I would want trust my life to.

    Plus, the UK does apparently have an extradition treaty with Cuba, so if the British wanted to try him, they likely could if he went there.
     
  18. Major

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    His Ecuador goal is tied to them granting him asylum. If that happens, the extradition thing is no longer relevant. Ecuador's government announced (on twitter!) that he did request asylum there, but hasn't announced whether it will be granted.

    The US hasn't charged him with treason. The charges that they have filed (so far) have a max total time of 10 years in prison, from my understanding.
     
  19. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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