Should African Americans today be grateful for slave traders?

Thanks to European colonists for enslaving Africans, divvying up their borders without any concern for local ethnicity and boundaries, manipulating them all with religion, and perpetuating corruption through their ranks.

I'd say that was a hell of a lot worse than slavery. Africa remains an impoverished continent because of this.

 

I didn't accuse you of anything, texxx. Not in this particular instance, at least. If you're suffering from conflation, can I suggest a laxative?

Seriously, if you read my comment a bit more closely, you might notice that I said my own experience includes having to listen to someone (mentally bereft of common humanity, clearly, which is the nicest thing I could say about the *******) say that Black Americans were lucky to have been shipped here as slaves because of the conditions that many Black Africans live in "today" in Africa. The last time I personally heard something like that was close to 40 years ago, but I did hear it then, and from more than one person. Attempting to explain the circumstances is more than I want to do here. Besides, I'm on vacation in New York City, and am a loon for spending some moments discussing a topic that is deeply disturbing to me. It just so happens that I recently read the work of history I referenced. It's actually very good. I enjoy history, although it can be depressing at times.

 

Nobody except or you apparently.

 

The "White men divided up Africa without concern for ethnicity" is pretty overrated, because what Wilson and others learned at Versailles in regards to self-determination is that there are no neat borders between ethnic groups. No matter where you put that line, there will also be some population of Group X that will be living in Group Y's borders, which inevitably invites tribal conflicts no matter what - case in point, was Hitler pursuing self-determination in trying to unite the Germans when he demanded Czechoslovakia, or was he violating it by hurting the Czechs? During that timeframe, the Western allies honestly didn't know, which was a large part about why we acquiesced.

 

Isnt it a POSITIVE unintended benefit from child, sex and drug trafficking how it brings KIDNAPPED CHILDREN OVER into these WONDERFUL borders full of opportunity, and they end up setting up their families for a BETTER life in the long run than the place they left? Thank goodness for those merciless thieves and crooks.

Its kinda like how DEADLY WAR can be a boost to economies. Some people will probably come out of it better off. But its pure blood money. Just a paradoxical thing. You just wish it wouldnt happen.

Maybe there's some Amazon tribes right now living low end. But they probably wouldnt want us torturing and enslaving them for their future prospects. And how long would it take for them to really assimilate into the culture in that regard, while facing prejudice and persecution all along the way.

 

If you and I can acknowledge the first point (it is so painfully self-evident), then you can stop questioning whether there was a long-term benefit to slavery. Point finale. Say it with me---there is no long-term benefit to slavery.

As for the second---

I don't want to be stuck at the point where income per capita (a very narrow measure) captures everything. However, technically, there are both poorer areas of America that are poorer than Africa as a whole in terms of aggregated income per capita---and certainly, individual African countries perform better than many American counties.

For example, Botswana at a GDP per capita of about $14,000 outperforms at least 100 American counties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

As for Africa as a whole---certain areas---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_poorest_places_in_the_United_States

but let's not take my ambiguous legalese position and turn it into too many specifics. Income is not the end-all and be-all of everything, though I suppose if that's your mentality, that's why you've let it seep in that slavery might have been somewhat beneficial.

 

Like Chris Rock said in one of his standups, America is like the uncle that raised you from a young age and got you through college but molested you growing up.

You're thankful on one hand but, mmm, the relationship can never be without some awkwardness and mistrust.

I personally think an African-American as well as Native American Holocaust museum is long overdue, or at least they need to be more mainstream, not just one for WWII Jews. Both groups were taken advantage of and cast aside by greedy white men and their ambitions. And no, I don't blame all white people and throughout history, even in the early days. Not all were thrilled with what was going on and some even fought for change.

LOL, I won't even touch this one, I wouldn't want my profile to get deactivated . LOL, give me a break , maybe I should say it because I'm not afraid (inside reference, carry on ClutchFans).

Of course, he fails to realize that Jim Crow and numerous atrocities such as lynchings happened in the lifetimes of many people still living, including my grandfather who is in his early 70's and hardly senile. Even my mother was technically born into segregation.

Don't hit 'em too hard with the truth. I told you (in other threads) the rulers of this word were inherently racist and antagonistic toward blacks.

 

Dumb thread.

 

How many people immigrated from Africa to the US prior to 1865?

 

you're trying so hard to troll, but can't win

but I'm getting a good chuckle out of it

 

you've been stretched beyond your limit and are flailing at this point

 

How many ships sailed forth with slaves, that could have sailed forth with free men and women?

 

Well, nice to know I've switched you to personal attacks rather than addressing the points. I shan't expect a substantive response, I suppose, but that's usually the case after one or two bouts with you.

 

Hell no.

They should be grateful to themselves, all the previous generation, the slaves themselves, and even slaves owners that help right the wrong. Those are the folks that help them and EVERYone can be grateful to them.

They can forgive, move on, but be grateful .... I beat the hell out of you for my gain and since now you are doing fairly good, you should be grateful to me... I think only certain folks of certain thinking can think in this twisted way.

 

None, that was kind of my point. The alternative to slavery wasn't widespread immigration by free Africans, it was Africans staying in Africa.

 

exactly. Northside tried to change the frame of the conversation, but couldn't convince anybody because his logic was flawed

 

That is correct but this is where the original argument is also fundamentally flawed. The argument that an African-American is better off because their ancestors were enslaved ignores the fact hat we have no idea how things turn out in Africa and North America without slavery.

 

I doubt slavery had such a negative impact on Africa that without it Africa would now be better than the United States.

 

I think I should be grateful the European settlers took away my land and invited me to live on reservations...