Hakeem in his prime For eight years, '89-'96, Hakeem averaged: 12.5 rebounds 3.8 blocks 1.9 steals 25.0 pts Duncan never came close to those, except for rebounds (a couple years). That said, Duncan is one of my all-time favorites, and I agree that Hakeem's numbers might be inflated a bit because he didn't play w/ great players.
Hard to do if you are objective. No doubt Duncan was in a more consistent system and organization, with better scouts who fed the system with players that excelled in it. But, one thing you can do or imagine - switch out Dream and Duncan for each other in the years their respective teams won titles. If Dream is playing for the Spurs teams that won titles with Duncan, do they still win? I find it hard to believe they wouldn't. Switch out Dream for Duncan in the two years the Rockets won titles and I find it hard to believe we'd have even ONE banner hanging. Again, GREAT player. But, nowhere NEAR as DOMINANT on either end of the court as Hakeem. Benefitted greatly from where he was drafted and how things played out for him.
Is this sarcasm? you dont think Hakeem played against great players?? lets see: Ewing, Shaq, David Robinson, McHale, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and those are only centers.
who cares where they were drafted? they had enough inherent talent to win a nba finals mvp (parker) and be multiple time all stars headed to the hall of fame. You dont do that because of "coaching." Look at mid 40s dream busting up a young josh smith: <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jXP1oaJq69M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> fantasy or reality basketball, dream is better. by a country mile.
Gotta say one thing: it's amazing how much energy Duncan still has left at 37 and running the floor like a young buck. Olajuwon was not that fast in 99-00, he had gotten a bit fat by that time.
Dream was never fat, but yeah, his knees were certainly shot by that time. Garnett and Duncan have been ageless wonders... It is really amazing...
Fortunately, Duncan is a PF, not a true Center, so the debate is moot to some degree. However I would agree that Duncan had a better career and Hakeem had the higher peek. Duncan played like a veteran almost immediately, making his teammates better, and using his talents to their best advantage. Hakeem took many years to come to a place where he was able to make his teammates better and leverage the full force of his mighty talents.
But why do TEAM results make Duncan a better player than Hakeem was? Almost all of the INDIVIDUAL metrics show Dream outplayed Duncan. In my opinion, Duncan was a great player who benefited tremendously from being on one of the best-run teams the league has ever seen, a team that managed to stay elite for a decade and a half because it was run so well. Dream was an amazing player who played for a team that only had a 4-5 year window of being run properly. That doesn't say ANYTHING about which of them was a better basketball player.
So by that way of thinking, Robert Parrish ranks equal to Duncan and above Hakeem? Sorry, I just don't see the logic in rating players by how well their teams did.
Not really. Duncan was a higher career PER, higher win shares, slightly higher True Shooting and effective field goal, better career offensive and defensive ratings. Duncan also had a higher RAPM (adjusted plus/minus)
...and outplayed/shut down in the playoffs by the likes of Rasheed Wallace, David West, Zach Randolf, an over the hill Karl Malone and *drum roll*....... Spoiler (yikes)Pau Gasol(/yikes) Hakeem would have chewed these guys up and spit them out in a one on one matchup in the playoffs. I would love to see those numbers if the two had played in the same era against similar opponents. I have followed the careers of both these players since their college days so I dont need to look at the numbers to tell me which one of the two I would pick to build my team around given everything else stayed the same for both players (coaching, management, players).
I was just pointing out the flaws in the argument made earlier. Also, Pau Gasol is quite good at basketball. The fact that you spoiler him is weird. He's better than Sheed, David West, Z-Bo and an over the hill Karl Malone
I spoiler him because Pau Gasol has been a mental midget more often times than not. I cant say that about the other players on that list. He has shrunk for entire series or playoff runs on many occasions. Phil Jackson b****slaps Gasol for being SOFT... <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P8pV2v4wNJs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Kobe Bryant has been in his face on many times to stop playing SOFT. Chris Paul, a PG, calls him SOFT to his face... <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1Nv2qz79xUw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Kendrik Perkins and Amare of all people have called him SOFT... Magic Johnson on Pau Gasol.... "Gasol has to stop playing SOFT..." Headline in SportingNews.com... "Pau Gasol gets labeled as SOFT by another opponent" Snoop Dog (lol) on Pau Gasol... "Gasol SOFT as drs cotton swab." Duncan got outplayed by someone like this. You honestly think Hakeem would let Pau Gasol get the better of him??
According to Kevin Pelton Duncan's 03 run was the third best of all time. According to him: I put the rest of the top 10 on this list. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=239644 I am not saying Duncan is better than Hakeem, but there are some people who do.
BS? Denial is your best friend. I didnt even have to make stuff. I just quoted other NBA folks and headlines... (Unless you think Magic Johnson with an interest in the Lakers is just making stuff up) Posted a youtube video of his own coach b****-slapping him. (Unless you think its doctored?) Yeah an injured Garnet. Forgot how Gasol fared against a healthy KG when they first met in the finals? (Oops! Looks like you opened up the wrong can of worms!) Weak sauce. Try again =)
