I agree with kuku, also with Harden we already have a guy who can break down the defense and feed our bigs. Parsons is also getting better at this and Lin is still average so rather have a post presence in Dwight. Chris Paul is good but he hasn't really made a team that much better nor lead a team to the Conference, led alone NBA Finals.
If Howard comes..CP3 will follow. Sign Howard Trade Lin/Asik for CP3 CP3 Harden Parsons T.Jones Howard
I agree. If Howard is in the fold, then you can find creative ways to free up cap space afterwards. Already your line-up would be: Lin / Harden / Parsons / TJones / Howard with Asik GSmith and Beverly in the rotation. Rather than scrap Lin and Asik to upgrade to Paul, why not attempt to SnT for Paul Millsapp? If you lose Asik in the process, then your line-up is still: Lin / Harden / Parsons / Millsapp / Howard with TJones GSmith and Beverly in the rotation If you can get Lin to up his 3pt% to, say 37%, that right there is championship caliber. Millsapp actually fits beautifully into a team that has a PnR demon in Harden and a post dominator in Howard. He has a fantastic mid- to deep-range shot for his position, and he has an array of post moves when we decide to reverse a play or exploit the weak side of a defense. With Dwight Howard all of a sudden you work that much harder to upgrade your PF to a versatile scorer instead of a rebounder. The PG becomes almost irrelevant, as all he needs to do is shoot wide open threes and give Harden a breather now and then by running his own PnR's with our big men.
Exciting to hear they're showing a lot of effort. I prefer to have Howard just to balance the front and back court a bit and keep defenses guessing.
I could envision if CP3 decided to come to TheToyShop by himself/can't see it unless there was a trade with perhaps the Knixies for Chandler, Paul's old running mate in NOLA. There have been rumblings about the NYKs wanting to shuffle things up and OA3 + ? ? ? for TC. Would a team with two CPs and 2 Chandlers + The Beard be good enough to challenge for the West? For it all? I do believe the article was saying that there's a Plan A and a Plan1A. Didn't DM the GM suggest the same at the season ticket dinner posted a while ago?
He is a poor shooter who has no post moves, sure he can dunk, but that's about all he can provide by way of offense. It's not hyperbole, he's a fairly terrible player on the offensive side of the ball DMo had a very poor year shooting the 3, if that was the best he could do, I'd never suggest he ever shoot a 3 and he performed about what you can expect from Josh Smith. If DMo stays a 28% three point shooter, he won't last long in the league, 28% is Josh Smith's career 3 point percentage. If I could see into the future, then I'd have said that Josh Smith isn't anything that Thomas Robinson WILL be rather than talking about what he COULD develop into. I wouldn't want him for 12 mil either. He's a great defender and dunker, but that's all he brings to a team. Let someone else waste money on him.
1. Josh Smith finishes almost 78% at the rim...on over 5 attempts a game and is terrible on offense? Wow, I will take that 78% at the rim any day of the week, thanks. Besides, again, on our team, we don't need him to do much BUT dunk the ball. Dwight Howard has no shooting skills or post moves either (though JSmith is better in the post, let's be honest here) and we're still thinking max money (which he will get one way or another). You're both underrating being able to finish at the rim consistently and omitting other things the player brings to the game. 2. Yeah, he isn't great from 3 pt range, but coming off a 30% 3 pt season and shooting 38% from the right wing? That's not terrible either. Enough where I think he'd stretch the defense out to some degree. He won't be our 3 pt specialist, that is for sure. 3. In that case, there are a LOT of players in the league that could in theory turn into some other player. That statement isn't worth much because what we all really care about is probabilities. 1% chance TRob gets to JSmith's level vs. 90% is a big difference. How long it takes matters as well. No one here knows the answer to those two questions. 4. He's great at transition offense, a great defender who can guard in the post and on the perimeter and can finish above the rim. Why wouldn't we pay him $12.5M? lol -- you're entitled to your opinion of course, but I totally would trade Asik for him if we've already secured Dwight. Way too repetitive/redundant in skills/talents with Asik/Howard. Josh Smith plugs our big hole on the perimeter as far as defense goes. We got the paint locked down one way or another. Our perimeter? Not so much. Smith brings that, and we all know defense wins championships. We don't need everyone on the team to score 20 ppg. Again, plenty of players paid big money for their defense, not their offense. Smith brings the defense AND meshes w/ our system and team. Were we another team, I would be more hesitant about how Smith's offense would fit in (half court game? is he first option? etc.) -- happens to work out with us. We drive and kick, he does that well too! ps - this is ALL under the assumption that he will continue taking horrible midrange jumpers. It isn't impossible that he'd cut down on them in our system. Not saying it is likely, but the chance of that happening is worth something as well, almost like a bonus on top.
What if CP3 and DH12 both decided that they really wanted to be in HTown with Harden, but that they didn't want the team to completely gut itself because their whole purpose for being here was to win championships, not about money. Of course money would still matter to some degree, but what if they were flexible in the amounts they would take and contract structure? Let's suppose that Morey, selling the team to DH12 and CP3 wanted to field the following team and stay under the luxury tax threshold so that the following salaries for next year would have to be agreed to. If so, here are the questions that I would have for those that are knowledgeable about the subject: 1) Can DH12 and CP3 structure their contracts per the new CBA so that they take less money in the first year, but make up those lost salaries in subsequent years? ( for example similar to what NY would have had to pay Lin with the 5-5-10 structure. Meaning that both of them take substantially less in their first year in order for the Rockets to acquire them both and keep the players that we want to keep, but give them that money back on the back end of the contract so that the total amount equals to what they would have made in a max contract with a normal setup. This way, if even possible, the Rockets only end up paying the luxury tax in the final 4th year of the contract, albeit a HUGE tax, but maybe not as bad as taking the multiple year tax penalties that increase with each subsequent year that you are over the tax threshold.) 2) Is there anyway, or at what amounts would DH12 and CP3 have to take first year salaries in order for the Rockets to field the team below and still stay below the projected 71.6 million dollar luxury tax? 3) In what order would we have to trade, release or acquire those two stars in order for the following possibility to even happen if everyone was in agreement? 4) What if both DH12 and CP3 made it clear before they become free agents that this is what they desire and pushed their current teams to facilitate sign and trades if necessary for us to accomplish the goal below. IF, and I know it's a big if for why would their current teams do it, but IF their teams choose not to loose them for nothing, is their anyway to make trades or deals that would utilize some of our players that we need to release before July 1st to help facilitate and make possible the following scenario below? 5) I know that this probably all seems HIGHLY IMPOSSIBLE with the restrictions of the CBA, but before you dismiss all wild possibilities, is there anyway to achieve this if this is what DH12 and CP3 wanted to achieve and were willing to structure contracts in any way possible to achieve it, as long as most or all of the money was made up down the line? 6) IF it is possible to structure contracts with them getting significantly less in the first year, and making it up in subsequent years with a big payoff to make up the difference in the final 4th year of their contract with a huge payoff, wouldn't that also be in the Rockets advantage because then DH12 and CP3 wouldn't want to opt out of that last year since they will be getting paid BIG time in that year and the Rockets will be paying a HUGE luxury tax penalty in that final 4th year? (And would it be possible to renegotiate/extend those contracts then or do they have to end before we can resign them again?) I know that some of this may NOT even be possible, so if you want to flame me for even asking these questions, then please go ahead. I read the forum and all the cap stuff thats put on here, but I don't try to get so deep as to understand it all, and much of what I am even asking about may simply be NO! But if any of it is possible with some out of the box thinking and agreements, then this team I feel could win us two or three championships in a row and beat the current Spurs and Heat: Howard Year 1 Salary $17,700,000 Paul Year 1 Salary $15,700,000 Harden 2013-14 Salary $13,668,750 Asik 2013-14 Salary $ 8,374,646 Lin 2013-14 Salary $ 8,374,646 Parsons 2013-14 Salary $ 926,500 Beverley 2013-14 Salary $ 788,872 Jones 2013-14 Salary $ 1,551,840 DMo 2013-14 Salary $ 1,422,720 G.Smith 2013-14 Salary $ 884,293 Anderson 2013-14 Salary $ 916,099 Garcia 2013-14 Salary $ 1,265,977 (vet min.) Total Salaries 2013-14 = $71,594,343 (current projected luxury tax = $71,600,000) Possible Depth Chart: Paul/Lin/Beverly Harden/Lin/Anderson Parson/Harden/Garcia Howard/T.Jones/DMo/Parson Asik/Howard/Smith All starters could average 35 minutes a game, except Asik at 30 minutes Lin could average 20 minutes backing up Paul (3min) & Harden (17min) Beverly could average 10 minutes backing up Paul (10min) Harden could get his 35 by playing 31mins at the 2, but getting an extra 4min at small ball at the 3 Parson could play all of his minutes at the 3(35min) or play 4 of them at the 4 during small ball Garcia could play the other 9 minutes at the 3 that are leftover Howard could play 18 minutes at center and the other 17 at PF when Asik is in the game. The other 30 minutes at the PF spot could be divided up with TJones/DMo/Parsons as needed according to who is playing better/matchups I don't see how other teams could match up with out starting lineup, and our bench would kill most other teams as well. A man can dream can't he? Now flame away!!!!!
Without having deep knowledge about the cba, I would say your basic premise fails. You can't just overpay a huge ton in the 2nd yr or something. They are already getting their max, which is determined on a yr to yr basis. Taking let us say $5M less their first yr of a 3 yr contract, they can't just then take $5M more in their 3rd yr because they were already AT THE MAX. I think this might be possible under certain exceptions (Gilbert Arenas Rule) w/ those coming off rookie contracts, and maybe even non-max players, I don't know, but it wouldn't be for max I imagine. Also, you keep talking about not wanting to go into luxury tax room as if we can even get there just by choice. We can't. The salary cap is $58.5M. We can't exceed it unless we meet/use certain exceptions, i.e., Room MLE or use bird rights, etc. Some exceptions will not apply, esp. if we've just tried to sign Dwight and CP3. Most of the players you listed...in our 'lineup' would have to have been released well beforehand to just sign Dwight. I don't see how we can retain them and accomplish this. Sure, CP3 and Dwight can agree to large paycuts each and let us not gut our roster, but I don't see them taking multiple millions off their max contract as they cannot just 'make it up later'.
Yeah, we definitely can't just approach the luxury tax line like that on a unilateral decision on our part. Lin and Asik 100% have to be moved for us to even entertain the idea of CP3 joining Dwight in Houston (assuming we even got Dwight). Anderson is almost certainly gone as well just for us to sign Dwight.
idk how i feel about getting CP3. he would be a huge upgrade over Lin but i am worried about the 4 position and back up 5 if we get both CP3 and D12. reports say that Howard wans to play with Asik because he wants to limit his minutes (i suspect this would only last one season or until he feels like his shoulder/back are 100%). i feel like the defense asik and howard can bring to this team outweighs the offense that paul would bring. also we all know that DM loves flexibility and having three players taking up almost 90% of your cap kills any future flexibility that can be used to upgrade the 4 or bench.if we could somehow convince both of them to sign for around 17 like the big three in miami then i am on board. All that i can say is that its a good time to be a rockets fan and we can all thank the beard for that
I would take Josh Smith and D12, u need physical defenders c the pacers Smooth can get physical with KD and Lebron D12 rim protector trade Lin Omer to toronto for kyle future 1st and fillers or expiriings if they have any
Good points,but will Howard insist on having CP3 in Houston before he commits to us? I hope he won't act like a diva.
This is important to note. CP3's legacy is directly competing at this juncture w/ his twin bro Cliff at State Farm so this could be an opportunity to one up him. Howard/harden/Paul is an absolute dynasty. Im talking 3 peat and simultaneously shutting down Lebron's in the process.
Not trying to argue or anything, but just because they are considered "Max Players", but if they aren't paid their MAX salary in the first year of a contract, why can't you give them a bigger pay raise in a subsequent year (2, 3 or 4) as long as you don't go over what a max contract would have paid in the beginning? I'm just curious. I understand that you can't just sign guys up the the luxury tax level, that's why I asked the questions of was there anyway to get there using the exceptions, trades, contract structure and the timing of when you added certain pieces, i.e. in a certain order to get their within the rules. Unless there is some provision of the CBA that says that they couldn't make it up later as long as the total contract doesn't exceed what they would have made in a normally structured MAX CONTRACT, then theoretically it is POSSIBLE, even if not realistically achievable.
I'd take it because Morey would still be our GM. Brooks, Landry, Scola, Parsons, Budinger and Hayes show that morey will find other that can contribute thru the draft if we lose role players. Role players can be replaced stars cant
Yes, I know that rule applies to MAX CONTRACTS, but does it also apply to contracts that aren't maxed out players? (i.e.- Jeremy Lin getting 5-5-10 million that allowed us to take him from NY, even though he counted as 8 million per cap reasons to us.) I honestly don't know, that's why I'm asking.
