Who cares when Parker and Ginobili were picked? Also, Tim Duncan didn't make them the players they are today. Hard work in a gym and natural talent did. If that's the case, Hakeem launched the careers of Robert Horry and Sam Cassell. Hakeem is better than Duncan if we're talking fantasy basketball, real basketball, basketball indoors, basketball outdoors, etc. I grew up watching Hakeem play as a child, and have seen Duncan play numerous times as an adult. Dream is the better player and it's not that close. Sorry. Duncan has never had defenses completely game plan to take him away, and Duncan can't hold a candle to Hakeem defensively. Anyone who actually takes the time to watch tape of both guys would come to the same conclusion.
There are three things I'd argue Duncan did better than Olajuwon: 1. Consistent understanding and willingness to pass out of the post from the day he stepped into the league. 2. Emotional control and maturity from a young age. 3. Longevity. Tim is slightly better at 36 than Hakeem - in the regular season, on a per 36 basis and in the post season. We'll see if/how he declines going forward. For every other category - which is a ton - I'd take Hakeem. Better scorer, rebounder, defender, block shots, steals, shooter, ft shooter, did more with less talent around him, etc.
ANYONE who would even post the question about Dream vs. Duncan has obviously never seen Dream play. I give Duncan his props, but he is no Hakeem the Dream Olajuwon. It's not even close.
Career high in PPG for a season Duncan: 25.5 Olajuwon: 27.8 Number of seasons scoring 25ppg+ Duncan: 1 Olajuwon: 4 Number of seasons scoring 23ppg+ Duncan: 3 Olajuwon: 9 Highest Blocks Per game in a season Duncan: 2.9 Olajuwon: 4.6 Olajuwon's career average for blocks is higher than Duncan's career high (3.1 compared to 2.9 for Duncan's PEAK blocks) Tim Duncan never averaged 1 steal per game. In contract, Olajuwon only had 1 season where he didn't average at least 1 steal. Career field goal % (this is basically a wash, they were both efficient) Duncan: .507% Olajuwon: .512% Career free throw % (again, Olajuwon is slightly better) Duncan: .693% Olajuwon: .712% Offensive rebounds per game career high Duncan: 3.5 Olajuwon: 5.4 Offensive rebounding career average Duncan: 2.9 Olajuwon: 3.3 Highest total rebounds per game for a single season Duncan: 12.9 Olajuwon: 14 Rebounding total career average Duncan: 11.2 Olajuwon: 11.1 Highest assists per game in a season Duncan: 3.9 Olajuwon: 3.6 Assists per game for career Duncan: 3.1 with 2.5 turnovers per game Olajuwon: 2.5 with 3.5 turnovers per game Duncan appears to be a better passer with less turnovers. There are probably many explanations and excuses for this, but Duncan definitely gets the nod in this category..
"Tim Duncan never averaged 1 steal per game. In contract, Olajuwon only had 1 season where he didn't average at least 1 steal." Oop, meant CONTRAST not contract..
hey i'm a huge olajuwon/rockets fan... but duncan deserves respect. olajuwon is the better individual player, but i have no problem with TD being in that conversation.
There is a reason why blocks and steals come after points, rebounds, and assists...because they are not that important; they don't always convert to points.
I can't point to articles, and can't even remember if I'm remembering correctly, but I believe I've seen stats that point to steals for example being one of the most important stats in the game. Why? Because they almost always convert to points. Logically it makes sense. Wrt blocks, preventing 2 points should be as important as scoring 2 points. The reason it comes after pts, rebounds and assists is because their impact isn't nearly as measurable, and because they accumulate in smaller numbers. 20+ ppg, 10+ rpg or apg. Versus 1+ spg to be good, or 2+ bpg to be good in that category. And even that doesn't adequately factor in the importance of defense, because "intimidations" or "clogging the lane" or "ball prevention" or "low FG% against" type stats aren't even measured. Even Hollinger admits for example PER is skewed to underrate defensive importance. Someone like Bruce Bowen, who consistently put up single digit PER's yet more or less started every game for the Spurs, coached by an all time great who is known to be hard on his players, playing 30+ mpg for a 9 year stretch during which the team won three championships. Wouldn't it be fair to say that he was a better than average NBA player during that run, despite his PER putting him WAY below average - which Hollinger sets at 15 PER? Olajuwon more than most players would see a huge PER increase if the formula was adjusted accordingly. Not that Duncan is chopped liver in that department. Almost universally the NBA champs have been top 10 in offensive and defensive rating ranks (04 Pistons buck this trend as only the 18th best offensive rating team... but they had 2nd best defensive rating), though more often than not, the defensive rating rank has been higher The Spurs were consistently a better defensive team, relatively to the rest of the league than they were offensive. I ma not a "defense wins championships" type guy. I suffered through too much JVG to realize that it's only half right. But it is VERY VERY VERY VERY rare for a team to be middle of the pack defensively and win (its is almost equally rare in reverse as noted, though does happen occasionally). Analysts and fans may underrate defensive stats, but I guarantee you coaches don't, and the game never does. All of which is beside the point. Hakeem was a better offensive player than Duncan.. and a better rebounder.
I can easily make an argument that blocks are at least equally important, if not more. A block usually leads to a fastbreak/easy 2 pts. And, more importantly, it can serve to demoralize your opponent. Highest Blocks Per game in a season Olajuwon: 4.6 Duncan: 2.9 Dream > Duncan (period)
Could we stop talking about personal skills and stats? Dream is definitely better in those; and focus on how each player contribute to their teams winning? That's a much more interesting topic IMO.
This really shouldn't even be a conversation at all. Hakeem in his prime would put clown shoes on Duncan in his prime if they were to go against eachother and it's pretty obvious. Duncan couldn't stop Hakeem's offense, Hakeem could grind Duncan's offense to a halt with his defense. Now that said, Duncan is still the greatest PF to ever play the game, he just doesn't measure up to Hakeem.
Not really. You're talking about obvious hard blocks that lead to fast breaks. But blocks that you can barely tell (like hitting the ball with the tip of the fingers) and blocks that fall into the hands of the opponent are also blocks. And 4 blocks a game is about 1 block a quarter. Does that seem like much? Demoralize your opponent? How intimidating were Ben Wallace and Andre Kerilanko with their blocks?
duncan is just solid all around. never flashy but just does his job and wins championships hakeem is much more flashy with many more moves
An NBA team with no shot-blocking threat will never win more than 20 games in a season. I question if you have ever touched a basketball if you do not understand the immense value of shot-blocking in the game.
