[Sean Deveney] Will Dwight Howard force a Lakers sign-and-trade?

Haha dude, you've got your head so far up Lin's shorts you can't see through his Asian bush.

No, it's not prudent to compare Lin's and Brook's production this year. one was a starter and one got spot minutes. Two entirely different scenarios. When both were given the equal opportunity to start, those are the numbers to compare. And even the fact of having to compare them proves my point. You can get similar production at PG for a lot less money.

You LOF's are impossible to reason with, as you'll come from any angle no matter how unreasonable to defend him.

My question to all of the so called LOF's. If the Rockets do trade Lin, would you continue to be a Rocket fan? If not, there is no way to have an intelligent discussion about the Rockets with you. You're too sensitive and sentimental to think clearly. I'm so happy that none of you are the owner or GM.

 

ummm... you realized harden also came off the bench before we acquired him right?

 

A very short explaination on the difference between the new and old S&T

1. In the old S&T, teams receiving the S&T player can have his contract at the super max level , aka the 5 year deal with higher per year increase. this gave players a major incentive to take part in S&T trade because they would end up with more money, however, this is no longer true, if the Lakers S&T Howard to anyone, he's still only getting 4/87, the same he would get if he just sign strait up.


2.Teams 4 million over the Luxury tax (like the Lakers) can't be on the primary receiving end of a S&T (for example, they can't S&T Chris Paul.) though they can let their players go via S&T and still apply to the general trade rules. though it does play into their limitation on exceptions and such.

The main thing is #1, because everything being equaled, obviously the team signing the player don't wanna S&T, they're losing extra assets they don't have to. the reason why it use to happen a lot was that there were considerable incentives for the players. now that's gone, only teams that's like 5-10M under the cap but can't go significantly lower for some reason would have any real incentives to do it.

 

Insults because you can't win an argument? very mature lol!

its not even about lin lol, most of the people here would even start beverly over brooks....

so get your head out of brooks' shorts so you can see through his black bush...

 

I'm not arguing anything. You guys are arguing over Lin and Jack. A starter and a bench player. I didn't bring that up...Lol.

 

Jarret jack is a better backup pg than starter. He can go against second unit teams rather that first lineups. Jeremy Lin has more upside than jack and could grow faster if harden would just give up the rock every once in a while. As of last season, it doesn't matter who the rockets pg is because he just needs to get out of the way so harden can go one on one.

 

And how does that pertain to Jack & Lin?

 

You're right. Lin needs to be on a team where he can shoot 19 times a game and dominate the ball like he did during his run in NY and just have players waiting on his passes. Harden is holding him back.

 

Jack's age 24 season was pretty clearly worse than Lin's, let's leave it at that. Though the two are very similar types of players. and even similar in size.

Upgrading Lin would be a no brainer if CP3 were coming through that door (because if he were, you'd make room for him unless your PG is Rose / Parker / Westbrook.), otherwise, it's far more doubtful as the other guys available this summer are no clearly better options, Jeff Teague would be the closest thing to an upgrade I guess, but that's a fairly limited one at best as well. I guess there is also Jose Calderon, but if you think Lin's got no D then you probably never seen Calderon play extensively. he's also 32 and made 11m this year.

I think it should also be note that among PG, there is a big separation between the top 4-5 guys and the rest, but not much of a separation among the rest.

 

Yes. These are the people I refer to as the "Anybody But Jeremy" crowd. They are also known as LOH's.

Talking with them is a lot like playing Whack-A-Mole. Once you knock down one half-baked argument or player they offer up to replace Jeremy, there's always another one ready to pop up. Why is that?

Because all they seem to care about is making sure Jeremy Lin is not the starting point guard of the Houston Rockets.

It's sad, but it happens. I got into this same discussion over at Real GM maybe two weeks ago. Many of these people are what I would call anti-intellectual. They don't want to know facts. They are certain that Jeremy sucks and is a fluke, no matter what facts you tell them or what information is presented.

It's sad. But after awhile, I think you just kind of learn to politely nod your head when they make their "arguments," and then move on.

***

Aaron Brooks had a lot of potential. In 2009-10. Then he got hurt the next year, Lowry took his job and things really haven't been the same since.

Heading into 2013-14, that was four years ago. Brooks can shoot and is fast, but he's also small (5' 10.5" without shoes), doesn't play defense well and isn't the best passer in the world. Still, he's pretty young yet (28) and definitely can do some things off the bench as a change-of-pace guy and/or as a shooter/scorer.

Is he going to take Lin's job? I doubt it. Did you see how he looked on defense against Reggie Jackson? That's not going to get it done for McHale, I would imagine.

Also, as we've seen with McHale, he likes his point guards to look to pass at least as much, or a lot more, than they look to shoot. That's not really Brooks' game.

Brooks had trouble getting minutes in Sacramento among Thomas, Fredette and even Douglas. Thomas has talent. Fredette can shoot, but I don't think anyone is going to confuse his ability level as a PG with Jeremy Lin. We know Toney Douglas.

Look, if Aaron Brooks wants to win Comeback Player Of The Year in 2013-14 and take Jeremy Lin's job while doing so, I'm on board. Just like if I win the lotto tomorrow I'm going to be a millionaire. I'm down with both of those things, even though I don't think either one is going to happen.

 

Calderon is a very good PG. His shooting, passing, and extremely low turnovers makes up for his defense but he wouldn't come cheap. J.J. Redick would be an option as well.

I agree that there is not much separation stat wise but you still have to find the right fit for the team.

 

Hey Grandpa, offensively Brooks doesn't need to do all those things because that's what Harden does, and does better than Lin. Brooks just needs to spot for 3's and stretch the floor, something that's he's way better at that Lin and why he possibly could be a better fit for significantly less money. Defensively, he'd be fine with a Smith and Howard front line.

And I don't know how this turned into a debate about Lin vs Brooks or Lin vs Beverly. It's not about that, it's about getting similar or better production from the PG spot for less money to allow more cap space to fill out a roster featuring Harden, Smith, and Howard. I've said many times that I like Lin but am looking at things from a Rockets first rather than a Lin first point of view, something LOF's are incapable of doing. I'm not the biggest Brooks or Beverly fan but think they, along with many others, could be better fit than Lin especially if it gives us the cap space to add solid veteran role players to a core of Harden, Smith, and Howard.

As far as the ego thing, I think that Brooks has probably been humbled these last couple of years. I didn't read or hear about any issues this year. All I know, is that he was pretty damn good that year with Yao. Maybe he could have similar success with Howard since the things he would be asked to do would be similar. His time in Phoenix and Sacramento were just not good situations for him but he does have the talent. Anyway, I couldn't care less if it's Brooks, Beverly, Steve Blake, Jarrett Jack, Nate Robinson, or Dikembe Mutumbo, I just want the best Rockets team possible and don't feel that Jeremy Lin is the best fit considering his style of game meshing with Harden's and his salary. I'd much rather have a better 3 point shooter since Harden will be doing most of the playmaking, and a better more experienced bench that would be possible by having more cap space.

 

No, that would be his lil' afro bush

 

Parsons likes to make plays with the ball too, it's not just Harden... But I get your point.

 

Anyone named Big Daddy Kane is ok in my book. Always have been a BDK fan from like the Juice Crew days.

Anyways, I've said most of what I wanted to say in this thread. However, let's go over one more thing:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1203304/1/index.htm

And:

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterockets/2012/07/anatomy-of-a-deal-how-the-rockets-landed-jeremy-lin/

People like Daryl Morey and Les Alexander don't appreciate being made to look like fools. Lin made them look like fools last year.

The last thing either of those two wants, I am sure, is to let Lin go again and have him start lighting it up once more. I would think this is why the effort was so great to get Lin back last summer.

Does anybody seriously think after just one year -- in which Lin's knee wasn't right for most of the season -- Morey and Alexander are going to let him go again? And set themselves up for another round of the humiliation that took place in 2011-12?

You made fun of me by saying that I act like I personally know Les Alexander. I don't have to know Les Alexander. I can read what Alexander has said and I understand human nature.

You have a talented young prospect whom you let go once. Fool me once, shame on you.

But you found a way to get him back. If you let him go again and he tears things up once more, then you're toast. Even if you become a serious contender. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Add these realities to the fact that Les Alexander seems to have a genuine affinity for Lin, I just can't see any realistic way he's not here next year. At least not short of someone like Chris Paul deciding he wants to join Dwight Howard in Houston.

 

it pertains to your statement

if you still don't get it let me spell it out for you...

coming off the bench does not mean you suck or you are a lesser player...

if you still dont get it... then no point arguing with you...

 

d white howard

 

I see reading comprehension does not improve with age either. I'm not a LOF, so that was an odd presumption. Just because I don't insult him, or in this case, just state some relatively mild facts about his production that are somehow not in a negative light does not mean I'm a LOF. I've talked about Harden's TO problem and doing too much iso ball, but I am definitely a huge fan of Harden. /gasp! People aren't necessarily categorized based on single comments that are either slightly positive or negative! You're welcome -- life knowledge that you had not gained up until now.

And that is why I did not compare Lin's points or assists totals to Brooks' this yr. That'd be stupid. I was comparing their FG and 3 pt%'s, esp. since those were the things you said Brooks did a lot better. And my comments about Brooks included his time with SAC in 12-13, where he averaged nearly 21 min a game. So not just the 'spot' minutes, although obviously Lin played more minutes. You would hope though that from 21 min to 31 min, %'s should not change that much.

I can't honestly believe that you think comparing 2009 Brooks to current Lin is somehow a fair comparison? Just because they were both starters then? Oh snap, we should go over TMac then! He's available for cheap right now and in his first season as a Rocket, scored 25.7 PPG and had 5.7/6.2 assists/rebounds! See how dumb that is? If you were comparing Brooks, hypothetically, as a starter LAST season to Lin this season, your example might gain some traction...but 4 yrs ago? What is funny then is that, Brooks in that year STILL did not have a higher FG% than Lin this yr, and while his 3 pt % was ~5% better than Lin's season avg, it is only like ~2% better than Lin's 3 pt % post all star break and was Brooks' PEAK 3 pt % of his career. Oh yeah, and it was 4 yrs ago.

What's slightly humorous about this whole thing, besides you of course, is that I don't even disagree with your underlying premise. I think we could find a PG that brings similar production to the table for cheaper. I wouldn't shed a tear if we moved Lin and Bev or someone else took over, even though Lin seems like an upstanding guy. But I don't think we should move him for the hell of it because he's an asset that's about accurately priced atm. If it is to get something important done, then sure. I just don't think moving Lin's contract to sign a vet wing rotation player (when we still have our vet mins and room MLEs anyways, although the amounts are not too high) is that 'important something'.

 

Ironically these bunch of people are the same breed of LoFs. I think your word "anti-intellectual" has summarized these two groups quite nicely. Those are people who always look at things from their initial position, always try to defend their superior opinion, and always refuse to change their point of view with new facts and information.

 

And where in my statement did I say Jack suxked or he was a lesser player...?

You're just assuming that is what I mean. You could also assume I may have meant Lin may suxk or be the lesser player (to use your words) since the trouble is being gone through to compare Lin who is a starter to Jack who comes off the bench.

I expect a starting point guard in this fast pace jack it up offense to have numbers beyond the comparison of a point guard coming off the bench.