[Sean Deveney] Will Dwight Howard force a Lakers sign-and-trade?

Howard wouldn't come for a top 5 sg, and top 20 sf, that would be kinda crap really, fortunately Harden and Parsons are both significantly better than that.

 

Thats because we can sign Chris Paul first and take a cap hit from signing and trading

asik+lin+Robinson+ 2 1sts

that would give us a lineup of

Chris Paul
James Harden
Chandler Parsons
Terrence Jones?
Dwight Howard

than we can compete against the bad boys from miami

 

Giving them too much. Look at the history of sign and traded stars (LeBron, Bosh). You'll see teams losing there star due to a sign-and-trade in FA don't get much (Cleveland got two first round picks and large trade exception but no players in return).

Honest, if this is what it takes to sign and trade for Howard, you are better after just dumping Asik, Lin and Robinson for 2nd round picks (or maybe a future 1st) and signing him outright.

The Lakers have no power in these scenarios, unless every team in the league refuses to trade even a second round pick for Thomas Robinson/Lin/Asik.

 

Hahaha

About a month ago I suggested a signing CP3 and Howard and I got bashed by the majority of this board. I'm not going to do the same to you.

Yes, your trade is possible. You only have to give Lin and Asik to get Paul. I think it unlikely because Paul is staying in Clipperland but you never know.

I'm just frustrated at the people who want to give up Lin and Asik for Josh Smith. That you don't need to do. Just Asik + PF is enough to get Josh Smith. Why Asik and not LIn in that trade? Because we have a glut of PFs and Cs and not enough PGs, that's why. Can't believe some people don't understand this.

 

He's been a Kobe homer for as long as I can remember, regardless of what team is "his" team.

 

Asik and a PF for Josh Smith? Some GM will offer Josh Smith a max contract or somewhere close to max. Assuming Dwight signs with us, we'd have to create extra cap space to accomodate his super max contract, particularly dumping Robinson's for minimal to no salary in return (future draft pick). And we don't even know yet if trading Robinson and his contract alone would suffice.

Asik + a power forward won't be enough to make room for a Josh Smith contract and Morey sure as heck won't even bother offering him close to max as other desperate GM's would.

 

Just to help make the point: Sam Amick, now of USA Today and formerly of Sports Illustrated, is a huge Kobe and Lakers "homer." Although he is from Sacramento (but I think he now may reside in LA) and may have some fond feelings for the Kings.

Now, I probably shouldn't use the word "homer" as that implies being from the area. That's fair. I just mean that the writer in question treats the player/team as "his" player and team.

Deveney has been that way towards Kobe for several years, at least.

 

Nonsense my friend. Everything you're basing your argument on is how Alexander, and many other New Yorkers, felt immediately after the Linsanity craze. And the decision to go after Lin wasn't made until after Lowry was traded and Dragic turned down the Rockets contract offer. So actually Lin was kind of a plan C. All the praise and stories about Alexander wanting Lin didn't come out until after they had already signed him. Of course, the owner and management are going to say how much they wanted a player after they have signed him. They pretty much do that with every player but with the hoopla surrounding Lin it was just publicized more.

Also, things have changed significantly since the Rockets signed Lin. Alexander, I'm sure thought that Lin could maybe be the face of the franchise, or at least he could market him as that due to the huge following of Linsanity in the Asian community, which he already pretty much had due to Yao Ming. It was definitely a smart business move because he had absolutely nothing else to market. But when Morey managed to sign Harden, he instantly became the face of the franchise and Lin, although serviceable throughout the season, was a far cry from the "Linsanity" that Alexander and everyone else had hoped for. Then, he was absolutely awful in the playoffs and was exposed for what he really is. An average point guard with potential to become above average but never a franchise player. Plus he doesn't fit well with Harden, who is the franchise player. Plus you have Beverly and Brooks, who are just as good if not better than Lin is now and make significantly less money.

Further, with the Rockets now having the potential opportunity to land Dwight Howard and maybe another top tier player, believe me when I say that Jeremy Lin's ship has sailed and his importance to Les Alexander is not at all what it was at the start of last season. Les Alexander, from all accounts I've read, is a shrewd businessman who wants to win and will do whatever necessary to put the best team possible on the floor. If he can land both Howard and Smith to go with Harden, he won't think twice about dumping Lin and Asik. Unless he values the money he makes from the Asian market more than putting together a championship team, which if that were the case, would be really sad for Rockets fans.

So put that in your pipe in smoke it buddy!

 

There's no way we'd offer over 60m for 4 years to Smith, no way no how, and it's doubtful we'd need to (contender team, no state tax), we'd undoubtedly need to throw a trade kicker in there though, no player takes a discount without that protection.

 

Nope, not buying that.

First of all, you're way off on how good Beverley is as compared with Lin, particularly at this point in time. Which is why I pointed out Game 6. Beverleysanity lasted, what, two games? And then a 22-year-old backup roasted him in an elimination game. In Houston. That's not the guy you're riding with next year. At least not at the start of year. Beverley simply has not shown enough to be in that position. There is no record of a legitimate "Beverleysanity" to fall back upon to do so. Lin is the clear #1 PG at this point in time.

Secondly, Alexander did not view Lin as "the" marquee guy. If you read the article I linked to, the second one, you would have known that. Let's review it:

The implication there being that Lin is NOT that "centerpiece star."

However, Alexander does think Lin can help lure such potential free agents:

So, you're wrong about both Beverley as compared with Lin and about how Alexander viewed Lin.

Not sure there's a lot more for me to say here. No reason to waste any more time on this conversation.

I understand people who may not like Lin may view Deveney's piece as a kind of "last hope" to project their feelings onto what they may hope could happen to Lin (Houston gets rid of him), but I would tell such people to stick with the record of what Alexander has said regarding Lin. More of that, less of your own feelings and possibly ill-formed perceptions, and I think you will be closer to the mark regarding where this situation is at.

Lin could be gone this summer, but based upon all Alexander -- the decision maker here, over Morey -- has said regarding Lin, that seems doubtful.

 

One other thing: I was wrong about Sam Amick. Although he did go to Sacramento State and work for the Sacramento Bee, he is actually from the Bay Area in California, a bit south of Sacramento and thus would more naturally be a Warriors fan growing up. Which I think he was.

Still, he has taken a "homer" approach to Kobe and the Lakers for years.

 

Lakers are really over the cap. the only way they can do a Sign and trade is if they amnesty Kobe, which will not be happening.

 

This story is crap as I've explained before. Read the apology from the editor at the bottom of the story. The whole premise was incorrect and the story should've been pulled from the website.

You guys that still think we have to trade Lin to get Howard and J.Smith, here is my post from another thread to show you how it works...

ACQUIRING HOWARD AND SMITH

Current cap commitments given that we waive all non-guaranteed contracts except Parsons, Beverley, G.Smith and Ohlbrecht.

Harden 13.6
Asik 8.3
Lin 8.3
Robinson 3.5
White 1.7
Jones 1.5
D-Mo 1.4
Parsons 0.9
Beverley 0.7
Ohlbrecht 0.7
Smith 0.8

Total 41.4 million

I'm working with a cap set at $62 million.

Reason:
Cap stuck at 58 for last 3 years, estimates of $5 billion (20%) record breaking league revenue increase this year from China sales http://www.nba.com/2012/news/11/13/s....ap/index.html

62 -41.4 = 20.6 million cap room

(July 10) Sign Dwight Howard max = 4 / 20.5

How:
Sign outright using cap room

Reason:
I'm not gonna go through all the reasons, read my sig. Mainly because Houston chicks rock.

(July 15) Trade for Josh Smith 4 / 14m

How:
Send Asik + T-Rob (11.8) for J.Smith (14)
Meets all CBA Trade matching requirements.

Reason:
4/14 is not the max for J.Smith but is 105% of his current 13.2m salary. I think J.Smith will take a little less to play with his friend Dwight. Smith has also indicated he wants to leave Atlanta. Its hard to force Atlanta to do this trade (why would they want to help us?). Atlanta did try to trade Smith to Houston for Asik and Parsons at the deadline so we know they are interested in Asik at least. I think they could be convinced to take T-Rob as he is a top 5 draft pick and Atlanta has had success developing young big men like Horford.

*Please note I personally do not think this trade will happen. I was just asked to explain how this would work. I believe if we get Howard, we will keep Asik and play the Twin Towers.

After the acquisition of Howard and J.Smith

Lin 8.3
Harden 13.6
Parsons 0.9
J.Smith 14.0
Howard 20.5

Beverley 0.7
2nd Rounder (???)
White 1.7
Jones 1.5
D-Mo 1.4
Ohlbrecht 0.7
G.Smith 0.8

Total Cap Hit = 64.1 million

I believe we could use some "exceptions" to sign some veteran role players to round out the roster.

***This numbers I used are not precise and this is a rather simplistic method of how we could trade for Howard and J.Smith. Obviously, an increase in the cap limit would effect the first year max value of Howard, but I think we could probably waive non-guaranteed contracts of G.Smith and Ohlbrecht if needed. If you think J.Smith will ask more than $14m, then you can add T-Jones and/or D-Mo to the trade.

Don't ask me to do this for Chris Paul because its NOT HAPPENING! Keep dreaming.

For the real capologists out there, feel free to pick apart my scenario... always willing to learn from the experts.

SO TELL ME AGAIN WHY WE HAVE TO TRADE LIN TO GET HOWARD AND SMITH?

 

I better add this, too, before the subjective postings about how Beverley is supposedly better than Lin.

#1. Beverley is generally regarded as a defensive-oriented player. Which is to say, if you consider him to be better than Lin, then that assessment would almost certainly be based upon his being a better defender than Lin. You're not taking Patrick Beverley over Lin because you think Beverley is a better offensive player than Lin. There are no statistics to back that up, except you could say Beverley is a slightly better 3-point shooter than Lin.

Here's the problem: Beverley couldn't hold down a 2nd-year, 22-year-old back-up in the playoffs. Reggie Jackson torched Beverley for 11 points in the fourth quarter of Game 5, and Jackson had no fear at all of attacking Beverley in Game 6. Why? My guess is that he didn't think Beverley was tall enough to stop him from shooting over the top. Whatever the case, the "defensive stopper" argument for Beverley went out the window very fast in the OKC series.

#2. Here are Jeremy Lin's averages for the month of April 2013:

17/3/7

Beverley has never scored 17 points in any NBA game. Lin averaged 17 points in 9 games for the month of April.

#3. Beverley has never been much of a focus by opposing teams. Meaning, he has almost certainly never been the focus of many scouting reports and game plans. Lin has already been through this process. Once you gain prominence in the other team's defensive plans, your numbers are almost certainly going to go down. So, if you think Beverley may have challenges on offense now, you haven't seen anything yet

#4. The only argument I could see at all for saying Beverley should start over Lin would be the "fit" argument. Meaning Beverley supposedly "fits" better with Harden than Lin does. I don't agree with this argument, but I know it's out there.

I recall Lin "fitting" well with Harden in Houston's 122-119 win over the Thunder -- with Russell Westbrook healthy and playing -- when Harden put up 46/7/6 and Lin put up 29/6/7. I think that may have been the game which made former Lin critic Isiah Thomas say that Harden and Lin could be the best backcourt in the NBA.

***

In summary, there are no objective means to try to put Patrick Beverley over Jeremy Lin at this point in their careers. The numbers aren't there. I now some people who aren't big Lin fans wanted things to go differently in the OKC series, but we saw how things ended there.

You can say Lin played poorly in the game before he was hurt. That's fair. But it's his first playoff game. If I made a list of players who performed poorly in their first NBA playoff game, it would be pretty long.

For now, Lin is the clear #1 PG on the team. And deserves to be so based on all the data. Now, maybe we do Small Ball again next year and Beverley starts, also. But if one person is starting and one person is sitting, then right now it's Beverley sitting and Lin starting.

And given everything that Les Alexander has said regarding Lin, I think that decision would suit him just fine.

 

I do find it interesting that there are people who think that Lin is clearly such an objectively bad player that the only reason he would ever be kept on the roster is because Les Alexander has some sort of irrational attachment to him as a player. As if there couldn't possibly be any reason to keep him for basketball reasons - it's all about the Asian market and pure marketing money.

It's as if that is the only way to justify why Lin will "never" be traded in their minds.

I'm a Lin fan, and I have no reservations about whether or not Morey would be willing or able to trade Lin should the right package come along - specifically, for a max-level superstar (e.g. LeBron James).

Another poster made this distinction in another thread somewhere, and I think it bears repeating - there is a huge difference between a player who can command a max-level contract and a superstar-level player whose talent exceeds the max contract but who can't get paid more because of the CBA. In basic terms, it's as if you can only be paid $100,000 even though you are worth $2 million to the company. Comparing Josh Smith, who is actually worth $100,000 to LeBron James, who is actually worth $2 million but can only be paid $100,000, is ridiculous.

So yes, if you can get a superstar-level player, then I don't think that Morey would hesitate to pull the trigger. Otherwise, Jeremy Lin (much like Omer Asik) is actually a pretty good deal. Trading him outright just to get some player who is nominally worth more but is not as good of a deal might be such a smart idea when you are trying to maximize the value you get out of your salary cap. An extreme example of this would be like trading Chandler Parsons's $1 million contract for Luol Deng's $14 million contract.

 

all i know is that people here acting like lin has reached his peak. hes been stating he has a lot to work on this offseason and would be working specifically on his shooting mix up ,better 1on1 d, b 3pt shooting. if you rocket fans cant give your starting pg a chance to reach his peak an opportunity you fans are really the worst fans out there. its like falling off a bike breaking your leg but worrying about your arm. id be more worried about the terrible coach thats still around.

 

If Lin has to go....

I'm not going after CP3, go after Jarret Jack to be your starter. Better value than CP3 and dosen't have the injury history.

So startering line up would be Jack, Harden, Parsons, T-Jones or D-Mo(to stretch the floor), Howard.

Bench: Pat Bev, Asik, T-Jones or D-Mo(who ever doesn't start),Garcia ( if brought back on the cheap), and the kid from Oklahoma State.

This is if Lin has to go!!! I would kinda like to keep to see if he improves. And if you can Jack for similar to less money than you are paying JLin.

 

No...

 

Nah, not in favor of trading Lin straight up for Jack.

Lin would be better in the PNR with Howard, is 24, and has more potential.

Jack is getting old.