Let's see- ignorant poster on ClutchFans or Michael Jordan? Eh, I guess I'll take Mike's word for it: "If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." —Michael Jordan
Stupid to post a question like that on a rockets forum. Homerism will destroy any objectivity. Post this on a non rockets or non spurs forum for a better answer.
Scoring- #9 vs. #22: 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 15,837 6,712 24.6 38,387 2. Karl Malone 1,476 13,528 9,787 25.0 36,928 3. Michael Jordan 1,072 12,192 7,327 30.1 32,292 4. Kobe Bryant 1,239 11,024 7,932 25.5 31,617 5. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 12,681 6,057 30.1 31,419 6. Shaquille O'Neal 1,207 11,330 5,935 23.7 28,596 7. Moses Malone 1,329 9,435 8,531 20.6 27,409 8. Elvin Hayes 1,303 10,976 5,356 21.0 27,313 9. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 10,749 5,423 21.8 26,946 10. Oscar Robertson 1,040 9,508 7,694 25.7 26,710 11. Dominique Wilkins 1,074 9,963 6,031 24.8 26,668 12. John Havlicek 1,270 10,513 5,369 20.8 26,395 13. Alex English 1,193 10,659 4,277 21.5 25,613 14. Reggie Miller 1,389 8,241 6,237 18.2 25,279 15. Kevin Garnett 1,323 10,151 4,799 19.1 25,274 16. Jerry West 932 9,016 7,160 27.0 25,192 17. Dirk Nowitzki 1,108 8,774 6,163 22.6 25,051 18. Patrick Ewing 1,183 9,702 5,392 21.0 24,815 19. Allen Iverson 914 8,467 6,375 26.7 24,368 20. Paul Pierce 1,102 7,882 6,434 21.8 24,021 21. Ray Allen 1,227 8,327 4,293 19.4 23,804 22. Tim Duncan 1,180 9,207 5,343 20.2 23,785
Rebounds- Hakeem wins there, too: 1. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 0 0 22.9 23,924 2. Bill Russell 963 0 0 22.5 21,620 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 2,975 9,394 11.2 17,440 4. Elvin Hayes 1,303 2,778 6,973 12.5 16,279 5. Moses Malone 1,329 6,731 9,481 12.2 16,212 6. Karl Malone 1,476 3,562 11,406 10.1 14,968 7. Robert Parish 1,611 4,598 10,117 9.1 14,715 8. Nate Thurmond 964 744 1,827 15.0 14,464 9. Walt Bellamy 1,043 264 481 13.7 14,241 10. Kevin Garnett 1,323 3,086 10,757 10.5 13,843 11. Wes Unseld 984 2,085 4,974 14.0 13,769 12. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 4,034 9,714 11.1 13,748 13. Tim Duncan 1,180 3,416 9,803 11.2 13,219
Steals- Duncan's not even top 30: 1. John Stockton 1,504 2.17 3,265 2. Jason Kidd 1,391 1.93 2,684 3. Michael Jordan 1,072 2.35 2,514 4. Gary Payton 1,335 1.83 2,445 5. Maurice Cheeks 1,101 2.10 2,310 6. Scottie Pippen 1,178 1.96 2,307 7. Clyde Drexler 1,086 2.03 2,207 8. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 1.75 2,162 9. Alvin Robertson 779 2.71 2,112 10. Karl Malone 1,476 1.41 2,085
Blocks- #1 vs. #8: 1. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 3.09 3,830 2. Dikembe Mutombo 1,196 2.75 3,289 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 2.57 3,189 4. Mark Eaton 875 3.50 3,064 5. David Robinson 987 2.99 2,954 6. Patrick Ewing 1,183 2.45 2,894 7. Shaquille O'Neal 1,207 2.26 2,732 8. Tim Duncan 1,180 2.25 2,652 9. Tree Rollins 1,156 2.20 2,542 10. Robert Parish 1,611 1.47 2,361 Oh, and before you bring up your BS about PER, guess what? No one gives a s**t. All-time points leader? Kareem. That's all people care about. All-time assists? Stockton. See how that works??
It's definitely arguable, but Dream has slightly better stats (especially defensively) and wasn't lucky enough to have all stars that consistently stuck around him his whole career. This impacted the number of titles he didn't have, but also may have increased his stats as well. Hakeem put up some monster numbers at times (Averaged 38 and 17 one playoff series )...Duncan never had to carry a team like Dream. Could he have if he needed to? We'll never know. If anything, they look nearly identical from an efficiency/effectiveness point of view with Dream having that edge in defense. When it's all said and done their PERs will be nearly identical too. Look at their numbers at 36...pretty much the same. Can't go wrong with either one...that much is for sure.
Well, not really. It's a fair comparison, and Duncan is certainly the best PF of all time, and surpasses Hakeem in some areas. But then you have a**hats like the FearBeard whatever his name is, and that is why I gave the response I did. Objectively? Olajuwon's better, but Duncan's close.
If you put a poll up, it would read 90% Olajuwon and 10% Duncan. And I wouldn't dare post a pro Duncan message without getting thrown into the fire.
Hakeem had a GOAT level peak of about 3 years. Duncan longevity and consistency are better over an entire career.
Or, we can just go by the opinions of people who played with both: Friedman: "What was it like to be teammates with Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler? It’s one thing to see them as opponents, but you got to know them in the locker room and also be on the court with them." Elie: "Two amazing individuals. 'Dream' was very private, a very religious guy, but the times that I was around him he was a comedian, just a great guy, a fierce competitor and probably the best player I had the pleasure of playing with. I played with a lot of great players but he was number one. He made my game better—having two or three guys on him all night enabled me to get open shots. He was putting so much pressure on the defense. He would say, 'Mario, don’t worry about getting beat. I will be there to have your back.' That meant so much. Being a defensive guy, I would pressure guys and sometimes they would get by me, but the 'Dream' was always back there to have my back. Clyde Drexler and I are great friends; we still keep in touch. I was skeptical of the trade at first because I felt that we won a championship with Otis Thorpe and I was a little disappointed that the Rockets traded him. Clyde didn’t complain, came in and made us all believers. When 'Dream' got hurt, Clyde went on an amazing roll and carried us on his back. I said, 'Hey, this guy means business.' So it was a great relationship." Elie: "I love Tim. I think he may be the second best player I played with but 'Dream,' just his performance in pressure situations—when David Robinson got the '95 MVP, 'Dream' told me, 'Mario, he’s borrowing my trophy.' When I heard that I said, 'Somebody’s in trouble tonight.' That guy put on a performance—under that pressure against the MVP and we have no home court advantage—and 'Dream' just dominated that position. It reminded me of when Jordan dominated Clyde when they were comparing the two guards. They were comparing two centers and 'Dream' just totally—I don’t want to say embarrassed—but he really embarrassed him, he dominated him—(series averages of) 35 (points), 13 (rebounds), 5 assists, 4 blocks. Those are amazing numbers for a center." Friedman: "Is the difference between Olajuwon and Duncan the athleticism? They both have great footwork but Olajuwon was a soccer goalie, so he had great athleticism and the way that he would get steals added another dimension that Duncan perhaps does not have." Elie: "Exactly. I just think that 'Dream' was more athletic, had a better game on the box and was a better shot blocker. Tim is a great defender. He gets his arms up and he blocks a couple shots, but 'Dream' was an amazing shot blocker. Like you said, he had great hands. He was always hitting the ball away from guys." Friedman: "He would steal the ball from guards." Elie: "Exactly. He would pick guys’ pockets. He had a great feel for the game and is just an amazing individual."
I think Duncan is the ultimate team player and could had better stats if he wanted to. Both easily in top ten. But neither is goat. Chamberlain, Russell, or jabbar are my top 3. I would still take shaq over Olajuwon if I had a pick.
Horry probably says it the best of all: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n_-9Z2LF4fI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I feel I can be more objective as I have been a fan of both players through their respective years. Prime Hakeem is better than prime Duncan. To me Hakeem reinvented the C position. He did things that no has ever seen before and quite frankly no one since has been as skilled. Duncan has been great but I dont feel he added or improved upon the game like Hakeem did. His low post skills (or should I say artistry) were and still are legendary, to the point where today's superstars are requesting one on one lessons from the Dream, which further elevate their own game (Kobe, Lebron, Melo, etc). I don't see the stars of the next generation seeking Duncan's tutelage. Hakeen was a transformational player. I am still waiting for the next Hakeem to walk onto the court.
I know in most of our minds Horry will forever be a Rocket, but lets keep in mind that Robert Horry also played WITH Shaq and WITH Tim Duncan. And through all of that he still holds Hakeem to be the best ever.
People forget how good Dream was even as a Rookie. His soccer and handball skills gave him great footwork and unique moves in the post. Dream played with very few all star players in his career. A short run with Sampson to start, then a short run with Drexler, Barkley, and Quitten (yea I had him too, but he was an all star), to end his career. He still managed to take 2 titles. Had the Rockets been able to give him SOMEONE to help take some load off, or hell just enough to slow down Shawn Kemp in his prime, Hakeem could have had 5+ titles, and Jordan would've been stuck with only around 3 titles. Duncan has had all-star/near superstar level players with him his WHOLE CAREER. Robinson, Parker, and Manu, at least 1 of them was with him his whole career. That is a huge advantage. Not to mention one of the greatest coaches of all time, while I love Rudy T, I don't think he was that great of a coach. Duncan was super steady his whole career, but he was able to coast throughout the regular season because he always had help, Hakeem couldn't. He had to carry his team.
