With a limited role it's really hard to be considered one of the best in any sport. Also, Steve Young was a good QB with potential but he didn't become great until he was given that opportunity. Harden showed flashes he could be great but there was still many questions about him. Nobody knew he would blow up the way he did and he certainly wouldn't have without the opportunity first and foremost. He also made the most of his opportunity by exceeding everyone's expectations. In hindsight it's easy to say yea of course Harden was going to turn out as good as he has but it doesn't work that way unless you're kidding yourself. Do you think Toronto knew Tmac would blow up the way he did in Orlando? Was Tmac considered "great" in Toronto with a limited role playing 2nd fiddle to Carter?
Nope. Could not. Miami made the moves to free up the space first of all and then made their big move. If it was so easy to do then those three would be playing for the Knicks right now, but it could only happen in Miami and this was something that took some pre-planning to do. Also again...the Shaq years. Riley made the move for Shaq and produced a championship. He most certainly without a doubt does. Again. If Morey was #2 in that draft he'd pick Durant as well. Durant is a HUGE reason for that team's success. No, No he could not have sold high on Tmac. Not when Tmac was a perennial all-star...you ride with your guys...you don't trade them away like Presti. He has had several good picks in the lotto for when he picked. He certainly hasn't picked busts that turn out to be nothings...well Royce White...but guys like Patterson, Landry, Morris, all solid NBA rotational players. Not to mention guys he's drafted later in the draft. Not to mention ALL the trades he made that pretty much put his team in playoff position...oh and his big plan of not tanking and still getting a superstar that some laughed out...worked out exactly as planned...and now he has one of the most attractive young teams in the NBA. Look at the Thunder without Durant...again...Durant is HUGE for that team's success. It's like saying the Cavs GM was good...he wasn't, he had Lebron and that bought team success. Judge the moves a GM makes and not the team success. The moves Presti makes aren't really big "whoa, he really won that trade!" the guy is good enough to draft in the top 5 or I should say not dumb enough to pick big time busts...but Look at what Denver got for Melo, they handled that perfectly. He flipped guys like Nene for McGee and Affalo for Iguodala..again that is MAJOR upgrades. Meanwhile Presti is trading Harden for Martin and a handful of unknowns and Jeff Green for Perkins. If there is more than one team after Harden then Presti would have the leverage. Then it becomes "Well you want Harden but so do the Jazz, Hawks, and Rockets...what can you give me that they can't?" Yes it becomes clear that they have to trade him...but it also becomes clear that you are going to have to beat another teams offer or lose Harden to that team. If more than one team gets involved then he's not hitting the market because the team that does trade for him will sign him. This is how the Nuggets and Utah got so much for Dwill and Melo although it was known they wouldn't resign.
NY didn't already have one of the players. If the Heat don't have Wade they can't make the big three happen. I'm judging Presti based on his picking Ibaka, Westbrook and Harden after taking Durant. The team's success is due to those picks. And even after the Harden trade his team was the number one seed in the west and the favorite to go to the finals before Westbrook went down. He still has the best young team going forward and it could get even better if Lamb, PJ3 and and the picks he got from the Rockets turn out well. Presti is so much more than a Durant pick. And as far as Morey goes he got lucky that other GMs weren't willing to take Harden. Morey did not accumulate the best package as was the 4th or 5th choice for a Harden trade. That's not how the Knicks got Melo. The Knicks got Melo because he said he was only going to sign there, Melo basically forced a trade to the Knicks. Also, there was no talk or thought of trading DWill before the season. DWill opened his mouth and Utah traded him A YEAR BEFORE his contract was up. How does your theory apply to a go that isn't going to expire for another year? Also, the teams you listed besides the Rockets wouldn't be offering anything the Thunder wanted. They don't want expiring guys like Milsap, Jefferson and Smith. Young guys on rookie contracts weren't going to magically become available to the Thunder at the deadline because teams didn't want to give up cheap players with upside for a max contract 6th man with upside.
You said the Thunder trio of Collison/Jackson/Martin is one of the best bench trios in the league yet you want me to name 8 that are better? You do realize there are only 30 teams in the league. With that said.... I'll play your game and give you 9. Heat- Allen/Battier/Birdman Clippers- Bledsoe/Crawford+ Barnes/Turiuf/Odom SA- Ginoboli/Neal/+ Diaw/Blair/Bonner Nuggets- Dre Miller/Chandler/McGee/Brewer NY- JR Smith/Prigioni+Novak/Kidd/Martin Boston- Terry, C.Lee, Green, Bradley GSW- Jack, Landry, Jefferson or Green Bucks- Redick, Henson + Dunleavy or Dalembert Jazz- Favors, Kanter, Williams
Drummond / Stuckey / Jonas Jerebko or Will Bynum (Pistons) of course they were tanking and limited their 2nd best player to 20 minutes off the bench
Clearly better. There are going to be debates among the closer ones. I kinda randomly picked the number 8 because if you could do that I don't think I had an argument for them being one of the best. I don't think somebody that says the Knicks or Grizz was one of the best teams this regular season is wrong even though they finished 6th and 7th in the league standings. However, I don't think the Knicks, Bucks, Jazz (Williams starts) or Celtics (Bradley starts this year and last) are better.
I already said he gets credit for drafting Wade but I'm not willing to give him credit for the big 3. That fell in his lap. That's ridiculous. He kept Harden long enough to allow him to lead them to the finals. But I do agree that if Lamb, PJ3 and the picks all flame out the trade is a massive failure. I'd have to look at his trades. What I do know is that he has been able to acquire 3 superstars. As much as you want to give him zero credit for Durant, the only reason he got Durant is because he was smart enough to realize the Sonics were going nowhere and traded off Ray Allen and let Lewis walk. Thanks to moves by Presti the Thunder were able to get Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka. It's not the same. Harden would expire this year and become a free agent. DWill still had another year left on his deal. The Jazz didn't have to move DWill that early but they did so they wouldn't be in a hostage situation the next year. The Jazz were trying to avoid the very situation you say the Thunder should have put themselves in. They for sure got flexibility. If they give Harden max like money they are investing over $60MM in 4 players and the new cap is very hard on repeat tax payers. With those 4 their future moves would have been very limited. Presti is the scratch off king. A healthy Thunder team is still the 2nd best team in the league. If they aren't contenders then nobody besides the Heat are.
T-Mac was not the same player in Toronto. His game improved. Harden is essentially the same dude he was last year. He just got a bigger opportunity. Proper comparisons would be players that you knew were studs (and he was recognized as one as he was a Dream Teamer) but didn't have a major role for some reason (better players on the team, sitting behind a stud, etc). Guys like Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Kevin Johnson, Michael Turner, Marcus Allen in Oakland post Bo Jackson, etc.
Sure, the 6th man of the year who just had one of his best seasons can't match up with stud depth like Nick Collision. Anchor of one of the best benches in the NBA. Thanks to the genius of Presti.
If Paul and Howard go to Atlanta would it be the same thing? It'd be a GM freeing up cap space (trading Joe Johnson) and making it happen. What Riley did if so easy we'd see a lot of other teams do it. You'd have to maintain flexibility to do it AND have a superstar already. How often then do picks past #10 pan out to be anything then? Because that's basically what he has left. Well I never said he was bad. He realized when the time came he had to rebuild and did the smart thing. What Morey did was infinitely harder...which was remain competitive, flexible, and acquire assets...how many GMs are capable of doing that? It's not a hostage situation if more than one team is willing to trade for him. Also Harden can't be a "Max player" but at the same time no team willing to trade for him. And just because a few teams weren't willing to at the time doesn't mean that they wouldn't revisit the trade, that happens all the time. Well that's his fault for perhaps overpaying Ibaka, no one Else's. I'm not so sure we should be saying that they would have just beat the Grizzlies when their front court had no answer for the Grizzlies frontcourt...None at all. I'm not saying they still lose but they aren't a lock to beat the Grizzlies even with Westbrook. Also the Spurs series they won in LARGE part because of Harden. I don't see how they would just be a lock to get to the finals. They downgraded big time. They replaced Harden with Martin and that's a big downgrade an will be hard to replace.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if OKC had waited until this offseason to trade Harden, wouldn't he have lost his Bird Rights? And if that's the case, exactly what leverage do you think Presti would've had? Look at the facts. He had already shown an unwillingness to extend Harden to the max. Harden would've been an unrestricted free agent, and he was going to be offered the max by some team. It wouldn't matter if 10 different teams were willing to sign Harden to the max. Harden could simply consider all the offers and sign with the team he wanted since he knew that Presti wouldn't match. Let's say he wanted to sign with the Rockets. At that point, why would the Rockets bother giving Presti anything at all? Where's the leverage?
