OK so then back to my question - when does the grace period end? It's been 4 years of middling to bad moves. That's quite a cold streak.
If you were right then he wouldn't have made the Dream Team, with his "limited" production in his limited minutes. Once upon a time Steve Young rode the pine behind Joe Montana. Just because he didn't get on the field didn't mean he wasn't one of the best QB's in the game. His team recognized this and traded Montana. Scottie Pippen was still one of the best players in basketball in 1993. He just didn't get a chance to show it until 1994. The fact that Jordan came back in 1995 didn't mean he wasn't as good simply because he was no longer asked to do as much. I haven't twisted anything. Harden was one of the games best players playing 3rd fiddle. He's the same dude for us as he was for them, with more minutes and shots.
Yeah, I do think Perkins is a bad contract, I think his defensive prowess has declined, and I fully expect OKC to amnesty him and pick up someone like Dalembert. But there are several teams in the WC that have strong frontcourts (LAC/LAL/MEM/SA), and Presti was aware of that. Trading Harden gave Presti the salary cap flexibility to shore up his frontcourt defense.
Exactly what moves are you expecting him to make? Their starting lineup has been set for the past four years. The Perkins move was good and necessary when it was made based on the need for a defensive big in the West. Acquiring Maynor was a good move and getting Jackson was a good move. Collison/Jackson/Martin is one of the best bench trios in the league. They have improved their winning percentage and seeding each of the past four years. They went further each year in the playoffs prior to this year. What is it that you think Presti should be doing?
You're right. There's no way Harden would've been a top-10 player if he was 3rd wheel behind Durant/WB. Off the top of my head Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Melo, Wade, CP3, Westbrook, Curry, Rondo, Tony Parker, Deron Williams, George. That's already 13 not including D-Rose. If you want to Aldridge, Griffin, LMA, Howard, Gasol, Z-bo and a healthy Love we're looking closer to top 25. Like I said.... he wouldn't have come close to sniffing top 10 in OKC.
bwahahahaa. Not even remotely close. And let's be clear, Collison is *backing up* one of the worst starters in the entire league in Perkins. Not getting killed in the Harden deal because he threw big money at Perkins/Ibaka? Not signing Derek Fisher repeatedly?
I don't think you understand what the Olympic team is. It's not a gathering of the 12 best players in the league. It's the league's attempt to build a super-team based on having players whose talents complement each other. You're also overlooking the fact that Harden was only added b/c of injuries to other players (Dwight Howard, Rose, Wade, Bosh). By your logic, since Iguodala was on the Olympic team, he's one of the top-12 players in the league, right? And since Eric Gordon, Rudy Gay, and Anthony Davis were the last 3 players cut from the team, they must all be top-20 NBA players, right? WRONG.
Yeah Westbrook was a good solid pick. I'm not sure they would have gone wrong with Rubio though, he would have fit in well with say Harden and Durant because he's a selfless player that gets everyone involved...if he stays on the court. Jackson, solid pick. Not ready to say it's a good or bad move. Sometimes these guys get their shot and put all they have into that moment and then sort of just fade away...like Maynor...Brooks...a lot of guys can get hot for a short period of time and look good. So Jackson right now is just another solid move. I don't think Presti is a bad GM...but I don't think he's the genius GM that some would have him out to be. I think he's a pretty solid GM in a league of really dumb*** GMs that seemingly don't understand the cap and make terrible moves. I think Buford, Morey...both of these guys constantly find gems, constantly fleece teams in trades. IMO guys like Buford, Morey, Masai...those are guys making great moves for their teams. Hey if Lamb PJ3 work out I'm sure Presti will be hailed as the genius top GM once again. I just don't see this long list of moves...and he has a top 2 player in the NBA so championships are going to be expected soon enough. Well we'll see. If he goes into next year still thinking that Perkins is good enough then he'll continue to fall down the GM ranks.
Please name all the better ones. Trading Harden was likely to be a loss and if the owner was willing to pay luxury tax it never would have happened. However, you can't say he got killed until we see if they can resign Martin and what kind of players Lamb and the picks turn out to be. The Ibaka deal is fine. Perkins regressed faster than most thought and that signing is a Presti mistake but all GMs make mistakes. Who really cares about them signing Fisher? He didn't hurt them. I'd really like to hear what you think he should have done though outside of the Harden trade which just happened this year. What should Presti have done the previous three years?
Do you think Presti is a top 5 GM in the league? Do you think most GMs end up with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka if they have the same picks Presti had?And are you implying that Presit shouldn't be considered a "genius" GM if Lamb and PJ3 work out?
The Griz may not have gotten out of the first round if Blake Griffin didn't get hurt and they probably don't get out of the second round if Westbrook doesn't get injured. Even without RWB, every game in the series against the Thunder was close. Remember how happy people got when the Pacers went up 2-1 on the Heat in the second round last year and thought they were going to win the East as they conveniently ignored the fact that Bosh was out for pretty much the entire series? The problem is the Grizzlies' current core is too weak on the perimeter to be a legitimate threat to win a title. Tayshaun Prince starting and playing 30 mpg and shooting a horrific 35% (3-13 last night) isn't going to get it done. The really ironic part about all this is that Memphis is a Rudy Gay type player aka a multi-dimensional wing away from being title favorites, but they're more or less stuck with what they have. By the time they can make significant changes the window will have closed. I'm asking you again, do you think the Grizzlies are going to win the championship? Yes or no?
No. I don't think he's a top 5 GM. Buford is number one. Finding Hall of Fame players late in the draft and constantly finding gems. Pat Riley is in that top five. Two or three. Riley's big plan of gathering three superstars obviously paid off. Miami was never a destination team until he made it so. Then he goes on to sign solid vets all the time, unlike the Knicks who sign vets no one really wants. Also remember the Wade/Shaq era... Morey I'd put number two or three. Morey constantly finds useful solid players even in the 2nd round. His big plan of acquiring assets paid off in the end and got him the superstar player. Masai has made many a good move to put his team where they are. He made a GOOD deal for his expiring superstar. A deal that netted him assets that he can trade away...no they don't have a superstar but getting a superstar is mostly luck...and patience. They definitely have the players and assets to get one should one becomes available through trade...and if not? If not they still have a solid team that's fun to watch. Danny Ainge for having a good plan and he's a savy GM. His team may be mediocre for a few years but he's made some great moves, drafting Rondo...trading Perkins, assembling the big three...we'll see what he does for a team that needs to rebuild. I guess Presti would be #6. He would be top 5 had he not traded Harden away for scraps. I know "How do we know there was a better deal to be had?" we don't. I know teams usually get desperate around the deadline...and I know that what he got back thus far seems pretty underwhelming. So I don't think he's a bad GM...but it annoys me how people put him up there with Morey or Buford, guys who draft really well and constantly win trades.
Why don't you name all of the worse ones? You are the one making the ridiculous claim. The fact of that matter is that of those guys, only one of them can claim to definitively be an above average palyer (Martin) - Collison is thoroughly mediocre and Jackson is just under the league average in term of efficency. SO you have one guy who sucks, one who makes a ton of money but is slightly above average (Martin), and one who is young but kind of OK. The opinion that that's the best 6-7-8 roster in teh gym is laughable on its face; take any of the league's 6th man of the year candidates, Ginboili/Crawford/Ryan Anderson/Smith; toss in ANY two of their teammates and you ahve beaten the immortal troika of Martin-Collison-jackson
Pat Riley gets credit for LeBron, Bosh, and Wade deciding to team up? You could have put that group together. He deserves credit for drafting Wade though. I love Morey but he doesn't deserve to be ahead of Presti. He could have sold high on TMac years ago but never did and has yet to make a good lotto pick. I think it's way too earlier to say Masai is a better GM than Presti. The team he put together didn't even make it out of the first round. He has a long way to go. Ainge was gifted KG but he did do a nice job putting together the rest of the team. I don't really have a problem with him being ahead of Presti. Why do you think teams would be desperate for Harden at the deadline? Those teams would know the situation the Thunder were in so it's not like the Thunder would have a ton of leverage. Either they trade Harden or they are going to be forced to match a max contract offer which the league knows they don't want to do. Further, the teams with young talent wouldn't be the panicked teams and those are the pieces the Thunder want. The deadline panic situation does not fit the Harden situation.
You have to be a super player to make the team at a wing spot (bigs are rare so it's easier for them). By your logic, Harden wasn't a super player because he accepted a limited role. Agreed. By my logic, a limited role didn't mean Harden wasn't considered one of the best in basketball. That appears to be your logic. Was Steve Young not a great QB sitting behind Montana? That's my logic.
You need to reread what I said. I said one of the best not the best. Are you aware that there are 30 teams in the league?
I'll give you the same challenge to name all the better ones. If you can name 8 that are clearly better I will admit I was wrong.
No, my logic regarding Olympic teams is that you can't judge a player's rank in the league based on his inclusion onto the Olympic team. Correct. Since Harden had a limited role (which translated into limited production), you can't consider him a top-10 player. I didn't follow football back then, but I can guarantee you that when Steve Young was sitting behind Montana, he wasn't considered one of the top-10 players in the NFL...
