It strikes me as odd that given the high (though mercifully falling) rates of infant mortality and maternal death in the US, funding for prenatal care programs isn't a primary policy concern for the pro-rights movement. I guess it's just not an issue where men can assert patriarchal power over women's bodies. As for the story in the OP, if the allegations are true this quack will go to prison for murder, so the looks like the law is working in these cases.
pathetic attempt to change the topic and rationalize your poorly formed position on this issue I'm strongly in favor of pre-natal care as well as post-birth care
Ok, good for you. I'm glad you and I individually agree on pre-natal care. Hopefully you'll pass along your concern to the politicians from your side of the aisle, who haven't been so supportive. If you're accusing me of changing the topic, it's odd that you went to the trouble of deleting the last sentence of my post (the one that started "As for the story in the OP...") I mean, it's right there at the top of the page. I don't know who you think you're going to fool.
Are you suggesting that if Republicans pushed for better and cheaper pre-natal care that Dems would budge on abortion? I think not.
I do blame the right when they're to blame. I thought the issue here was saving babies. On infant mortality, the right has been an obstacle. No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting that the pro-life cause has an element that wants to assert men's power over women, and that strong support for prenatal care is in line with pro-lifers' stated objectives.
so your mission is to call the right hypocritical. Just as I thought. I guess that's what you resort to when you can't defend your position on abortion. ...and how did you leap to the conclusion that the right wants to "assert power over women"? Why did you not come to the conclusion that they want to save a child's life?
And on preventing and punishing child rape the left has been an "obstacle." While I see and agree with your point that there is some hypocrisy and simple mindedness in the pro life movement, I totally disagree that anything but a marginal percentage has to do with asserting men's power over women. Despite the idea that gets perpetuated that women are somehow a second class citizen that the right just wants to send back to the Victorian era, women have most favored status under almost every version of healthcare reform that gets passed. Most insurance plans now cover all pre-natal care under a single copay including nearly every single lab and test that gets done. HUGE claim loser for an insurance company and that's before the delivery even comes into play. $1000 genetic testing labs that don't cost a patient anything if they are with BCBS. Cervical cancer testing now free. Mammograms free. etc. etc.
What, in particular, is the conservative party doing to prevent the expansion and funding of pre-natal care?
jesus christ. I have seen the most disturbing images on the internets and not flinched but the pic of that first baby just had me cringe. I don't know what to say other than I hope this piece of **** gets what he deserves.
There are many other ways to provide expansion and funding for pre-natal care besides supporting an organization that helps women seeking abortions (you know, the very thing that conservatives rail against). What measures in congress has the conservative party taken to prevent the funding and expansion of pre-natal care that is not tied into organizations that support abortion?
This thread is about the killing of born babies, no? I think we all agree that should be charged as murder. No one has yet asked me for my opinion on abortion in general. But I'll play. I'm conflicted on abortion, but the following points sum up my feelings: Morals — I value human life. Humans are capable of thought and emotions. Being a human myself, I don't see any justification (except the defense of oneself or others) for ending the life of another human. But I don't believe that a fetus in the early stages of development has the traits that define a human. As long as there's a limit on the timing of abortions to ensure complex brain structures haven't developed, it's my opinion that we're discussing potential humans. An abortion, then, is simply a person not being born, rather than a person dying. It's this distinction that leads me to support the use of embryonic stem cells to develop treatments that could save lives and ease suffering. I understand that each person will arrive at their own understanding of this question based on their worldview or belief system, so I can respect those who sincerely disagree with me on this. Policy — Regardless of where one stands on the moral question, I don't think banning abortion is a solution. I think a ban would replace safe, regulated abortion clinics with back-alley quacks and monsters like Gosnell. Politics — Even if I were anti-abortion, as a man I would be reluctant to lead the charge on an issue that I'm simply not in a position to comprehend, in an effort to take power from individual women and give it to a political class dominated by people more like me. If they cared so much about saving children's lives, they'd be more supportive of prenatal care. Since they aren't, I can only guess at their motives. I'm hopeful you can better explain this discrepancy, and I mean that sincerely.
No it hasn't--- thanks for giving your due to science. History will not look back kindly on arbitrary laws outside of the common law tradition, that based on neither science or fact, sought to restrict certain classes of human behavior. This is why Prohibition died, Roe v. Wade prevailed, and ultimately, why drugs and all forms of sex will not be the domain of the state.
With the exception of not supporting planned parenthood, what policies have conservatives opposed or supported that curtail pre-natal care? I am truly curious.
To what are you referring here? I'm sincerely curious. Quite possible. I put that forward as my best guess as to what elevates abortion over infant mortality as a priority in the minds of pro-life supporters. It makes sense to me, since the most staunchly pro-life parts of our society seem to also be the most paternalistic. I'm open to other interpretations, but none spring to mind for me. Which particular healthcare reforms are you referring to, other than Obamacare? Because repealing that has become a central raison d'etre for the right.
