They can't offer more than OKC. Harden would have been a restricted free agent. And yes, I was giving an example of a deal they could have made for Harden this summer. See the Joe Johnson trade (different CBA but getting something to not match). ATL could have been a possibility, with their capspace and draft picks (both picks worse than the Raptors one though). The Cavs have a boatload of capspace and picks. Harden is better than anyone they can land in this draft. The SG they took went higher than Lamb too.
I meant they could offer more than OKC in the sense that they would've been willing to pay Harden a max contract while OKC was unwilling.
That matters not, as OKC only has to threaten to match to receive compensation for a restricted free agent. Pretty common.
It's pretty common for teams to threaten matching when they have the cap space to do so. If OKC were to match a max offer, that means they would be paying the luxury tax for the next several years, and the luxury tax becomes more punitive for repeat offenders. By not extending Harden earlier, they had already shown they were not willing to go into the luxury tax for him. Basically, even if OKC did threaten to match, it would be an obvious bluff.
It's not about bluffing. It's about knowing you are bidding on a restricted agent and giving up assets to get him. Again, it's quite common. Go look at the Eric Gordon thread last summer and you will see plenty of talk of what we could give up so NO wouldn't match.
That's b/c NO had the necessary cap space so their threat to match had to be taken seriously. Same with Batum and Portland. Go look at NY last summer when the Knicks said they would match any offer Jeremy Lin got despite the fact that they were already in luxury tax territory. Morey called their bluff.
Any Atlanta deal not involving Horford would be worse than the Rockets deal and teams weren't willing to give up players like Waiters for 6th man Harden on a max contract this previous summer. I'm sure Presti called Cleveland about the 4th pick last year too.
They weren't good enough to beat the Heat last year and they got worse. Why would they break up a great young core? The smart thing was to start Harden and see what he gets you at the trade deadline. Worst case scenario you match whatever offer he gets in the off-season and you have plenty of time to trade him. That way you get to use him in the playoffs. Maybe they thought they were selling high on him after the WCF.
WHAT flexibility? People keep talking about flexibility for the Thunder, but where is it? Is OKC going to have cap space now? No and even if they did, they aren't getting anyone in the next two free agencies who's better than Harden to begin with. Besides, if OKC had to trade Harden because they couldn't afford to pay him 15 million, then they certainly can't get say, Josh Smith for 12 million. The only way that the Thunder might be better off is if Lamb somehow becomes the Reggie Miller somehow. Given his anemic rookie season, I seriously doubt that.
What necessary cap space are you referring to? You can exceed the cap to sign your own free agents. You seem to be referring to willingness to pay. Whether a team has that or not, it's quite common for teams to give up assets for the ability to S&T a restricted free agent. It's happened before so I'm really not going to keep debating over the possibility. Jeremy Lin is not James Harden. And that deal was structured as a poison pill contract. I don't believe that would have been possible with Harden's.
Not that you could do it, but what good would a poison pill for Harden be? it'd be a discount for the first x years when he should be getting the max anyway. The whole purpose of it was they weren't max players that would count against the luxury tax for 1 year as one. It would screw him because he should be getting the max every year
The new CBA really punishes teams that are repeat offenders. The Thunder won't be able to make huge moves but they will be able to use the exceptions and make sign and trades for players amongst other things.
No, by "necessary cap space", I'm referring to cap space under the salary cap. Of course any team can exceed the cap if they're willing to pay the luxury tax. That's my point. OKC was not willing to pay the luxury tax to keep Harden. I'll take your word that it's happened before, but I can't recall any examples that fall within the parameters you described (since what you described is essentially ridiculously horrible management). The reason Lin's was considered a "poison-pill" was b/c it would've put NY deep into the luxury-tax as a repeat offender. Similarly, if OKC had matched Harden's max contract offer, it would've put them in the luxury tax for the next several years (even if they amnestied Perkins). How could it not? Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden would've combined for at least $60mm of the salary cap. Call it what you want, but both scenarios have the same result: getting the matching team deep into the luxury tax.
you can't really hate OKC for letting Harden go. The NBA is a business and the cap is much harsher now. I'm sure they knew they could get better value for him if they waited but nobody expected Martin to be as big of a dud.
Oh. Well, that's just great. What's James Harden compared to the ability to give a player like say, Courtney Lee the MLE? Not to mention that they won't be making sign and trades for players at Harden's level, otherwise they would have just kept Harden in the first place. It's like McHale said, cap space doesn't block shots.
They did try and get Bradley Beal and Klay Thompson first, but Washington and then Golden State declined. Is Sam Presti overrated? I don't know, but Kojirou is absolutely overrated. The guy wouldn't know what was going on on a basketball court if you explained it to him like a 1st grader.
Considering that you're the laughingstock of this forum in particular, where are you rated? But at least you called it "right" Rudy Gay, Addition by subtraction! http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=7592442&highlight=addition+subtraction#post7592442 You should try sarcasm more often - it's the biggest win you've had on this BBS in a decade
Still trolling SamFisher? Why aren't you trolling in the NBA gambling thread where I've hit on almost 70% of my picks in the post-season? Why you no troll in my prophetic thread on Z-Bo, which is still relevant over two years after I started it? Why you no troll when I correctly picked the winner of the ECF, WCF, and NBA Finals last season at the very beginning of March? Too busy worshiping a scrub like Mike James? If anybody is a laughingstock, it's you. Maybe I can buy you and Kojirou a basketball for dummies book. Here's what I wrote in another thread: The fatal flaws of this team (the Grizzlies) are their lack of perimeter playmaking ability and inability to hit the 3 at a decent rate. Relying on Conley, Bayless, and Pondexter isn't going to get it done, because they're all relatively inconsistent. So far they haven't played any teams I would consider elite either...both the Clips and Thunder had injuries to all-star players. Also, they're basically playing 4 on 5 out there at times with Tayshaun Prince... 3 on 5 on the offensive end if you want to include Tony Allen. They're going to be an extremely tough out, but I just don't think they have enough talent to win it all. They're one multi-dimensional wing player away from being title favorites. Too bad they're stuck with old man Tayshaun Prince at $7 million per year for two more seasons, which is likely going to impact their ability to resign Tony Allen and waste away any chance this core has of actually winning a championship since they're starting him and giving him and his 35% shooting over 30 mpg. Z-Bo can't keep this up forever. Unless you think Memphis is going all the way. Would really be interested in getting a basketball prediction from you for once instead of your usual trolling. Don't be afraid of being wrong like you usually are.
They don't need Harden or another player of his caliber to win a ring. The Thunder still have the best young roster in the league and that isn't even counting Lamb or what they end up getting with their picks. I'm sure if money was of no issue to the owner of the Thunder Harden would still be there. Presti made a deal to give his team flexibility which is the smart thing to do when you can't just spend at will like the Lakers, Knicks, Mavs etc.
