Pretty successful, meaning bench guys who were eventually shipped out for draft picks ? Same team each year but with different faces.
Isn't this the FIRST year Martin has played a supporting role on a contending team? Actually, I think he's on the Knicks b/c of his relationship with Carmelo Anthony. You would think that a player with his talent would be worth more than $3mm/year. You don't remember him clashing with Ray Allen b/c he refused to improve his jumper? If Martin has an open shot, he takes it. That, a viable 6th man and salary relief. Salary cap.
Okay. So how are you sure that no team would give up anything for Harden? For Presti to get a lowball offer it would mean that only one team would be after Harden like the Rockets and that one team would then have the leverage. The moment another team joins in Presti then has the leverage again. Also the trade deadline is way too fluid for either of us to predict. But one thing we know is teams are more eager to make moves. Also holding onto Harden for the year isn't even that bad of a move. They still keep their core and if he walks they could have still made solid signings. You keep saying this as if Harden and Westbrook did not work out. Martin just shoots though...and then doesn't make those shots when they need them the most. They can get that from Reddick or Korver except those two are proven clutch shooters and cheaper too. Also Harden makes whoever he's on the floor better because he makes things easier. Martin is just a guy who hits shots. That's what he does. Not sure why'd he think that after they just went to the finals in large part thanks to Harden. More comfortable with Collison than Perkins. Perkins sucks. Period. He doesn't do anything well besides get away with illegal picks. Not about Millsap, but Jefferson could have been had while unloading Perkins. Utah would have just been happy to get Harden to go along with Favors/Kanter two of the best young bigs in the game. They would have been close to set. (especially since I believe Kanter is going to be a stud when they finally get him PT) I also think they have their Amnesty and I'm not sure if you can amnesty a player that you acquired in a trade though. But two more seasons of Perk is just fine for a young team like Utah. Big Al would have fit well with OKC and FINALLY gave them someone to go to score in the paint.
Do you guys think that Presti, without a doubt, regrets trading Harden? Or at least investing in Ibaka over Harden?
Well that is definitely the case. But it's not about the best deal they could get at the time. It's about whether it was a deal that should have been made at all. It's like the Hawks shipped Smith around and thought none of the deals were worth it. That's okay to do. Just because a guy expires and you don't know if he's going to resign doesn't mean you have to trade him. Look at the Lakers. They weren't going to get much for Howard at the deadline if they wanted to because no team going to take that risk...and that's fine. He leaves they have cap to sign other players and if he doesn't then they have Dwight Howard. That's how Presti should have handled this. If Harden leaves then they will have to replace him...if he doesn't then they have James Harden. I just don't see the worth of trading Harden for basically a batch of unknowns and a solid role player on a expiring deal. That's a move a rebuilding team makes.
I don't understand people knocking Presti for trading Harden. Nobody knew Harden was THIS GOOD and nobody knew Harden would have the type of year he did and nobody knew the trade would've resulted this favorably for us. Anybody that says otherwise is a ****ing liar. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=227853
He thought that because right after taking them to the finals teams weren't willing to give up players like Klay Thompson, Bradley Beal, and Jonas Valanciunas for Harden. His value wasn't going to be any higher after another year as their 6th man.
They can't just let Harden walk? The Hawks are willing to let Smith walk because they are rebuilding. The Lakers didn't trade Howard because they think he will re-sign. It was basically a lock that some team would give Harden a max offer sheet the next summer that the Thunder would have to match. Getting Lamb, Martin and two picks is so much better than just letting Harden walk.
When he starts hitting big shots I'll recognize it. An old deal. He'll get his worth this off season. Parsons is worth a lot more than what he gets now as well. I recognized Rondo can be a problem. He's still a phenomenal player though. I don't care about that stuff, care about results. Sometimes these things are just little things that fans blow up and players don't care about. It's like do you ever disagree or have an argument with family and friends? I'm sure you do and they do as well. In the first 3 quarters sure. In the 4th he's likely to either miss said shot or pass it away. Viable 6th man... if you are a contending team and worried about salary relief then I guess your team will never be a contending team. All contending teams are near the cap line or over it.
This is correct. I hate to bring up this thread becaue I was Wrong. DEAD WRONG... But so were a lot of other credible posters with high reps on this board. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=219667 Like I said.... Nobody knew Harden was this good. Not Morey, not Presti and sure as hell not us.
So he's a definite max player but at the same time no teams are going to want to trade for him? How can it be both ways? That's why you wait for the deadline. Because the teams that DO want him start to realize..."Hey...if we want this Harden guy it has to be right now not the offseason when he can pick and choose." That's how Denver and Utah get a kings ransom for Melo and Dwill respectively. Granted Melo and Dwill were bonafide stars at the time...you always get teams desperate at the deadline. The first mistake they made was thinking about trading him in the first place and not focused on resigning him. Any ways the point has always been is that they did not get much for Harden. It's hard to believe that they could not get more than a solid role player and a bunch of unknowns if they had just waited.
I would like to say that I always said that this was a bad trade for OKC. Even at the time and I laughed...literally laughed at how many people thought that Martin would fill Harden's role because "He can shoot." and Harden did much more than just shoot. He took over games at the end of them, carried the bench unit, was a general x-factor. Also my main thing with the trade is that they were a contender. They broke up a contending team instead of doing everything they could to keep it together.
He wasn't a definite max player but he was worth taking a risk on if you are only losing cap space. When you throw in giving up young cheap high high potential guys you double the risk. You don't see the difference between the two? It might be hard to believe but teams weren't willing to give up a lot to give a max contract to a career backup
Morey knew he would be a superstar. Anybody that follows advanced statistical analysis knew Harden was a superstar in the making, just needed just needed the #1 option. Why else would Morey pay the max to sign Harden? In Realgm.com, there was a 100 page thread that explained why James Harden was a superstar, using advanced statistics. This was posted SEVERAL months(January 2012) before Harden was traded. So yes, there were many people who followed statistics that knew he would be a superstar as the #1 go-to guy. I guess Presti didnt exactly know what he had right under his nose.
Morey knew he COULD be a superstar. Also, Harden is good but he's not a superstar yet. That's a whole different conversation though.
Not at all with Durant, Durant's an off-ball scorer. He doesn't need the rock like Harden or Westbrook do to be effective. Those three can definitely work; Durant's their best shooting scorer, Westbrook is their most aggressive scorer, and Harden's their best playmaker and arguably penetrator. In your big 3, if you have one that can work off the ball and at an elite level like KD, it can work.
About where in the player hierarchy do you feel that a player needs to be to be a superstar? The best 3 are somewhat off on their own, but Harden is in that 4-9 group.
Presti keeps Perkins around because he has championship experience with the Celtics. Same reason why he brought back the semi-retired Derek Fisher, even if he's getting torched by every young player in the league, he is a veteran who knows what it takes to win a ring. Morey needs to bring in someone with a Championship or even deep playoffs track record. Youth is not going to help us in the post season.
