Good chance it is Jaqen H'ghar, or possibly some other faceless man. Summar from Feast for Crows: A man that claims to be an alchemist and matches the description of Jaqen's new face when he leaves Arya arrives in Oldtown. He kills Pate, an inept Citadel novice struggling to form his first link in the chain. When Samwell Tarly later arrives in the Citadel he is welcomed by a novice calling himself Pate who appears to the outside world to be that same Pate.
Agreed. Tyrion as the Hand and Sansa as either the Mistress of Coin or Queen of the North [whatever Ed Stark's old title was] Rocket River
Only about half way through book 5, but it sounds like Dany may start going crazy like the rest of the Targaryen's? And Dany will definitely kill Jaime for killing her father.
as it is understood that you shouldnt be reading this thread unless you are finished with book 5 there is no need for spoilers but since you did Spoiler the one thing i have come to find out about grrm is that he leaves no doubt when he kills someone, jon snow was stabbed, not murdured, just like when he "killed" the boys and catelyn stark, it was not finite, also in the show when danaerys went into the house of the undying, there was snow in the iron throne room, and it immediately led her to the wall where khal drago and her dead son was, in the book he put the red wedding in the house of undying so i believe that was a major foreshadow for the show
Well then there's Aegon her other nephew..... It is a forgone conclusion that the other two heads of the dragon will be Aegon and Jon correct? Also as much as I love Tyrion I have a feeling he'll die before the end.
tyrion as the hand makes a lot of sense, but he has to kill someone off we like, tyrion, bran, arya, davos, arianna, someone....
I just got down with the Red Wedding chapter. I'm speechless. I mean...why? I liked Robb, and maybe that stemmed from watching the show first but... Jesus. Do the Starks have to get **** on the whole series? I don't even know where the series goes now, with the war now all but ended. But, I suppose that's up to me to find out. How did y'all take in the Red Wedding?
very very very very very hard, he was about to head out to retake winterfell, regain control of the north and march south to take out the lanisters, it was setup so perfectly, if you have time go back and reread the chapter where danaerys goes into the house of the undying
i haven't decided yet whether or not I believe in this Aegon character. He seems to believe who he is and the people around seem to as well, but Varys is involved so that automatically makes me question the authenticity of his identity. I mean everything makes sense and fits perfectly, but Varys is no fool. This is a plot that was well hidden and years in the making. I am also starting to question whether or not Tyrion is a Lannister at all. There continues to be hints that Aerys aka "The Mad King" was "interested" in Tywin's wife and that he would take certain liberties with her that contributed to Tywin turning against him. There seems to be evidence building that Tyrion could potentially be Targaryen. His fascination with dragons is also something that I find a little peculiar. It is kind of a small thing that you don't really think about or pay attention to, but maybe it is a hint. I don't remember what episode it was this season, but Tywin told Tyrion that he couldn't prove that he wasn't his son when he denied him Casterly Rock. I also recall a scene where Barriston the Bold began talking to Danaerys about how her father was with Tywin's wife and then he abruptly stopped and said "I've said to much already". It was obviously an uncomfortable topic.
I agree 100% on all of your points. -Aegon just appearing is too easy. He has to be an imposter, although I think HE may think that he's Aegon. -Tyrion being the Mad King's son is perfect. Here is a great breakdown of why (or on the flip side, Jaime and Cersei being the children of the Mad King): A DANCE WITH DRAGONS page 577 "Prince Aerys (the Mad King)... as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, (Aerys/Mad King) drank too much win at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished... the liberties (that Aerys/Mad King) took during the bedding." Ser Barristan to Dany A FEAST FOR CROWS Page 533 "The Imp is no longer my brother, if he ever was." Cersei Lannister Page 503 "... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year." Aunt Genna to Jaime A STORM OF SWORDS Page 880 "You... you are no... no son of mine." Tywin's last words, spoken to his killer Tyrion. Page 502 "Aerys had chosen [Jaime] to spite his father, to rob Lord Tywin of his heir." If this isn't a red herring (and I hope it is) There are a couple of choices: 1.King Aerys was Tyrion's father. 2.King Aerys was Cersei and Jaime's father. In favor of Tyrion, he's been interested in dragons since he was a child (GoT). Tywin said that he wasn't his son. Tywin was always cruel to Tyrion. Tyrion's hair is closer to Targaryen bleach blond, than Lannister blond. Tyrion doesn't get the greyscale because (just like Dany) he doesn't get sick. In favor of Cersei/Jaime, Barristan said that the Aeyrs took "liberties" on Tywin's wedding night... so the older children would be the offspring. Jaime & Cersei seem to have been born to love each other (just as the Targaryen's do) and Cersei's only other attraction was to Rhaeger who would be her half-brother. Cersei gets fascinated with fire. I'll be honest and say that it's fascinating to think that Aerys might have been the twin's father and that I never even considered it.
what vator just said is very interesting, ive never been truly convinced of aegon's origins but that could have everything to do with me trying to figure out grrm instead of enjoying the story
Never considered the twins...hmm. That is very interesting. I need to think on that some more. I still think Tyrion has more going for him though. Not only didn't he get the greyscale when he was completely submerged in the water whereas Connigton only reachind in to pull him out and was afflicted with it, but he also didn't get the pale mare that killed his slave owner and he was completely exposed to all kinds of disgustingly infected bodily fluids.
Most of those are either exceptionally circumstantial or actually support Tyrion being Tywin's son. That just means Aery's found him attractive, but the Lord's right to the first night WAS abolished and almost certainly didn't happen then, nor is there anything to suggest Joanna had a mutual attraction. The bedding ritual includes the men undressing the bride and the women undressing the groom, so most likely the "liberties" was groping and feeling her up during that process. Cersei hated Tyrion from the time he was a baby for "killing" her mother, she might believe it a possibility, but she certainly isn't saying it with any sort of proof. She is saying that Tyrion is the son MOST like Tywin, not that Tyrion isn't related or that Jaime literally isn't his son. If anything this supports Tyrion being Tywin's son, and Tywin gets mad at Genna because of how much he dislikes Tyrion. That was just disinheriting him for killing him. Tywin obviously dislikes Tyrion and holds him in complete disdain most of the time. He wouldn't keep him alive if he didn't truely believe he was his son, much less give him the birth rights he does have as noted below. When discussing inheriting Casterly Rock Tywin tells him Never. Tyrion asks why? Tywin says: "You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobediant, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him. But neither gods no men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse." Obviously he knew Jaime was his eldest and his heir and probably knew that Tywin hates Tyrion, and dwarves in general are treated as less than people. Tywin actually says that as far as he knows he is his son as I noted above. Everything else is completely circumstantial. Not to say it's impossible, but nor do I necessarily consider it likely. Actually he said that Aerys WISHED the Lords right wasn't abolished. The liberties was almost certainly being a little too hands on during the undressing part of the bedding tradition. Not actually having sex, or Selmy wouldn't have referred to the comment about abolishing the Lord's right to the first night as "a drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words,..." It is an interesting theory, but I just don't think it is that well supported by what we know as of right now.
I would MUCH rather it be the twins than Tyrion If Tyrion is really a Dragon . . . I will be truly disappointed It would be a tremendous fail in the story Rocket River
Explain why. I really don't see how Tyrion potentially being half Targ is anymore damaging to the story than John Snow potentially being half Targ and half Stark. I know Tyrion has been infinitely more interesting as a character in the book and especially so on the TV series so far, but I wouldn't mind another little twist in his story arc. John was just starting to get interesting in the last book and then his men turned on him. No great surprise there though considering all the things he was doing for the Wildlings and the faction of guys who still considered him a Wildling traitor himself. At the moment, Tyrion is considered a kinslayer, who in this book are cursed in the eyes of gods and men. He seems to be the luckiest cursed person I've ever seen lol.
kind of the point. Making ALL the good guys either Wolves or Dragons Seems like IMO too much consolidation Rocket River
