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The Myth of Beverley Being a Good Defender

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ed_tx, May 8, 2013.

  1. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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    Kinda rough down there. Been through a lot, huh?
     
  2. haoafu

    haoafu Contributing Member

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    Beverly disappointed me in game 6. He can't stop Jackson without fouling, so we have to put AB in early and Lin for extended minute when he's still hurt.

    Teams don't know about him before, so he's able to defend aggressively initially and be effective. Once they figure it out, He obviously was having trouble containing Jackson. I suspect he would have sustainable success in defense going forward.

    At least when Parsons focused on defense, he's able to held his own consistently without fouling much in his rookie season.
     
  3. Akim523

    Akim523 Member

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    Well that's what Im worried about. Beverley relies his game too much on energy, sometimes he runs around like a chicken with its head cut off --- it sure annoys the hell outta the ball handler he's defending, but it will only work if he's playing limited minutes where he can play at 200% for stretches. When he's starting, we saw flashes of him being Rondo-lite but we also saw him getting burnt by Reggie Jackson.

    IMHO, he's got potential to be a good defender, but not yet.
     
  4. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Since when does underrated equate to good? Underrated means other ppl view him as worse than he actually is or conversely, he is better than most people give him credit for.
     
  5. ed_tx

    ed_tx Contributing Member

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    My point exactly. All these people saying he is a great defender are giving him the title before he's proven it.
     
  6. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    You can do that when you have the DPOY at center and another big that is more than serviceable at the defensive end.

    Plus Tayshaun has been named All-NBA more than once in his career, no?

    Obviously Memphis' TEAM defense is much better than ours, so your point is moot.
     
  7. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Thats not true about the Grizzlies and Durant though

    Durant field goals and free throws per game:
    vs Rockets: 22 FGA, 10.5 FTA
    vs Grizzlies: 23.5 FGA, 11 FTA

    Rockets held Durant to LESS SHOTS per game (so far) than the Grizzlies

    Considering the Rockets play a waaaaaaaaaay faster pace than the Grizzlies, thats actually MORE in the ROCKETS favor

    - Rox and Griz are literally polar opposites, Rockets plays the FASTEST pace in the league, the Grizzlies play the SLOWEST (Rockets might get 10 extra possessions again. Grizzlies play a slow grind it out pace)

    I think the stats actually show the Rockets gameplan of limiting Durant's shots and everyone getting more shots is what did happen. Perhaps the Grizzlies have a "Durant's gonna get his, LIMIT everyone ELSE" approach.
     
    #167 Shroopy2, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  8. rolyat93

    rolyat93 Contributing Member

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    BECAUSE THEY ARE A BETTER DEFENSIVE TEAM THAN US.


    Tayshaun/Conley/Allen/Gasol are all good/great team/man defenders.
     
  9. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Well the Grizzlies are NOT even giving up LESS shots to Durant than the Rockets are in the first place. They're giving up MORE

    (I'll check the numbers again to be sure)

    He's using a scenario of the Grizzlies being BOTH effective on Durant AND on Jackson to show that Beverley was being ineffective, showing he did LESS than what he's SUPPOSED to be doing.

    But since the Rockets gave up less shots to Durant than the Grizzlies are SO far ("pace adjusted" 4-5 less shots) it means you can partially cite the Rockets double-cover Durant gameplan for why Beverley wasnt limiting shot attempts of Jackson.

    And THEN you can make a analysis on Beverley's defense. But need to take out the part of Grizzlies giving up less shots to Durant to have an accurate analysis
     
  10. QazQay

    QazQay Member

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    Leaving Reggie Jackson open was Rockets strategy against the Thunder. They wanted OKC shooting a lot of 3's to raise the variability
     
  11. ed_tx

    ed_tx Contributing Member

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    But you're including the first two games where Westbrook played. Of course, Durant won't have as many shots if Westbrook is in the game. He averaged 23 FGA against the Rockets in the last 4 Games but he went to the line 11.5 times a game compared to 11 FT attempts against Memphis. And this is factoring the amamoly of Game 6 where he only went to the line for 2 FT attempts (which only happened once the whole regular season). In that game Jackson, Fisher and Martin were all getting wide open looks so he take it in as much and get fouled.

    So essentially we held him to the same amount of attempts as Memphis but we were leaving men a lot more open than they are and Beverley's man was almost always open or beating him on the dribble. We definitely didn't play better D on Durant than they did.
     
  12. ed_tx

    ed_tx Contributing Member

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    I don't think leaving him wide open and uncontested was the strategy. I think doubling on Durant or closing the lane on him was the strategy. But then a good defensive player should run back at his man once he sees Durant is making a pass. And getting picked off time and time again wasn't part of the strategy either.

    Bottom line, pesky defender and fun to watch- yes. Great defender- no.
     
  13. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

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    Such a LOF. Bev is the best defender on team by eye test. Eye test >>>> stats
     
  14. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

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  15. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    I think you're being too hard on Beverley to compensate for others being too high on him.

    If he leaves his man to help on Durant, all he can be expected to do is run back at his man when Durant passes the ball off. And he did that. If Reggie Jackson is going to beat you hitting jumpers, then it just wasn't our game to win. The goal is to give Jackson those Js because he's less likely to convert than Durant.

    It is impossible for him to both keep his man locked down while simultaneously leaving his man to help on Durant.

    Beverley is a good defender and a good energy player off the bench. I'm doubtful he's more than that, but either way he's still no slouch - especially on D. He wasn't getting burned by Jackson; it was by design that Jackson was given those shots. If he makes them, which he did, you lose, which we did. But you have to live with that when you're facing a Durant or LeBron.
     
  16. RedEyesKirby

    RedEyesKirby Member

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    In terms of defense, most people just watch for on ball pressure or leaving man open or what not. But Bev bring one defensive attribute that's beyond these measurements. The reason our team looks better against OKC with Bev on isn't because he's a better man-to-man defender or a better team defender skill-wise. It's because he disrupts the momentum and flow of the game with his high energy run around. And since OKC heavily relies on quick pace and momentum, it works very well against them.

    I've played a lot of organized basketball and whenever you have a high energy guy against you running around doing little pesky things, it really screws up the mindset of your body and your team.

    The simplest and easiest example I can think of to understand Bevs game is let say your team is about to run for transition for offense because you saw your big guy ready to rebound the ball, and all of a sudden this high energy guy takes the offensive board. It really screws up your body energy usage as your are emergency stopping and running back which in turn causes bad offense flow from the disrupted energy. That's just one example of the little things he does to disrupt the momentum. He does way more than that, but I don't have time to analyze everything.

    One thing bad about this is if the other team plays heavy half court game, then his existence becomes useless because the point of the half court game is to maintain a steady slow rhythm which is hard to disrupt without pushing the pace. We saw that with the Pacers and Grizz games.
     
  17. SuperStar

    SuperStar Member

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    That's just silly the Rockets were gambling on anyone else beating them except Durant therefore there's no way for Bev to always be able run back to his man and make it in time because OKC spreads the floor well. The Rockets were playing small ball and getting picked off is easy when Asik is sagging to protect the rim. You can't defend a pnr like that Rox were simply picking their poison and got beat by the role players.
     
  18. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Why not wait until at least 4 games are played in the Memphis series before drawing ultimate conclusions then? Right now just consider it speculative because that series is still in progress.

    You can't say "things changed" after first 2 games in the Rockets series, but then think things CAN'T change after 2 games of the Grizzlies series. Maybe Reggie Jackson starts going off against the Grizzlies.

    Also - if Durants shot attempts are basically dead EVEN between the Grizzlies and Rockets, thats advantage Rockets. Because that means Durant gets less shots PER POSSESSION vs the Rockets and their faster pace.

    (I said not to reach to ultimate conclusions until more games are played, but SO FAR - )
    Durant shot .485 against the Rockets, and is shooting .513 against the Grizzlies.

    Rockets held Durant BELOW his season average. Hes right at his season average against the Grizzlies. Durant was less efficient against the Rockets (so far). How is that not better D?
     
  19. HadToDoItCF

    HadToDoItCF Member

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    OP doesn't get game plans, lawl.

    No way, he gave Jackson and Fisher wide open 3s because he was packing the paint for penetration by KD or doubling on him directly? One would think that the coaches would pull him for just making up his own game plan and giving up open shots. Unless, and hang with me here, the coaches wanted to make Jackson and Fisher beat them (gasp)...
     
  20. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    Now lets make this easy with the Rockets/OKC matchup -

    Focus on:
    - Almost 40 year old has-been who's barely played all season who shot 33% with his current team, who hasnt shot over 40% in 5 years.

    - Player in just his 2nd year who's NEVER EVER STARTED a SINGLE game in his CAREER until the bright lights of the playoffs

    - THE BEST pure SCORER in THE PLANET, 2nd best PLAYER
    I think we have an idea who's gonna get left open and who's gonna get some extra defensive attention on them.

    Its not to say that they couldnt do a better on those left open players. They should, its what GOOD teams DO. Though I think its obvious that Derek Fisher led the team in FG% and in 3's because he got wide open looks that he's never gonna get again EVER, because of players focusing on the other areas.

    Its sorta similar to the "Hack a Shaq Asik", its a strategic move but there's risks of it backfiring because these are professional NBA players.

    Good perspective there
     

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