No, just questioning how selfless an act it really was. link? NV was a communist state, Soviet supported. I work with Vietnamese who escaped as children, hiding in holes waiting for a boat to come to take them to the states. Leaving their parents behind.
That's coercion. To threaten someone with jail-time or banishment from their country if they don't do something is not giving them a real choice.
You can call absolutely anything coercion. You can call the federal income tax coercion. Does that mean those who refuse to pay their taxes should be lauded for "standing up to the man"? Those who were drafted had choices. They were not nice choices, but they were choices nonetheless. It is a sad day when opinions shift to such an extent that draft dodgers not only become socially acceptable, but actually praised. There are numerous stories about those who were drafted who were fundamentally opposed to the war, yet went and served regardless, because they knew that if they bailed on their duty, some other person would be sent in their place. Now that's someone to applaud. Not Ali.
I can and would call it coercion. And that doesn't mean I'm saying its wrong, necessarily. I'm simply saying a person who is coerced into doing something can not be said to be willfully doing it. If I give money to a charity because I'd otherwise go to jail, then should I be praised for my generosity? Loyalty to a war machine over one's own principles isn't something worth applauding. You suggest that they did it to spare someone else. Interesting thought, but doesn't seem to me very sensible. More likely, the reason one who opposed the war would go was because they didn't want the stigma of being called a draft-dodger and going to jail for it.
No, it means you're too dumb to understand the meaning of the term "coercion" and should refrain from using it in conversation to avoid embarrassment.
The draft is one of those litmus tests. If you support it, you aren't a libertarian. And just to clarify: libertarians oppose "initiatory violence" (what we mean by the word "aggression"), but not coercion. If you break into my house and I force you out, that could be coercion, and libertarians don't oppose that.
love true american patriots such as yourself. what ali did was stand up to a governement that as a whole treated him and his people as second class citizens yet expected them to stand up and fight for their political fetishes. unlike you i don't romanticize war. funny how you call ali a coward yet openly support politicians that had much less noble reasons for dodging (and ulitmately sent thousands of kids to die themselves).
Fair enough. I know several people in the military's various branches, and based on their observations along with mine, there is a strong correlation between those who fight on the front-lines and their socioeconomic backgrounds. The sons of the elite families I knew went to the military academies to serve in the Pentagon, intelligence community, F500 companies, etc. Talk to any grunts, and you'll see a combo of poor, urban youth and rural, socially conservative folk. I'm surprised how you didn't notice it. Most recruits joke about their lower middle/working class backgrounds. This same trend has been happening in the UK too. http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9195/index1.html No link. That was anecdotal evidence from the Tea Party supporters I've met. Most work in the defense industry. All of them support the Iraq war to this day. A state had the right to self-determination. I believe in humanitarian intervention. Libertarians don't. Fighting proxy wars with the USSR runs counter to all libertarians stand for. I wasn't referring to NV specifically. I meant Laos and Cambodia too. We radicalized a lot of their population by turning them us against with our collateral damage. Sound familiar? We never learned the implications of blow back.
I'm well aware of the definition of coercion. The analogy was perfectly sound. Both actions dictated by the government, both actions jailable offenses. And I didn't insult you, so don't ****ing insult me. There is an element of clutchfans users like yourself that resorts to insults against those who have differing opinions from yourself. I'd like to see you call me dumb to my face mother****er.
You're dumb to anybody's face, de Balzac, no need to see your ugly mug to know that. Come at me Brah.
Ali and Frazier both grew up poor in the South in the 40's and 50's; Frazier: like any other lifelong competitor or public figure, knew exactly what Ali was doing and appreciated both Ali's hardships and his own good fortune. Uncle Tom, and the notion of an authentic black American identity is both derivative and ultimate counterproductive to both impressionable blacks and otherwise tolerance-minded non-blacks, but it's nothing compared to literally having to fight your way out of poverty.
some real idiots in this thread. Next time a pointless war to no ends is started I'd like to see their stance on watching young men die for wars old rich men sitting at desks expect to profit from. Disgraceful. I'm also glad someone brought up the discrimination part and Aces conveniently dismissed it. For a guy who was treated worse and like a 2nd citizen in his own country, should he really be eager to go jump out? He wouldn't be in combat but he took a stand not just for blacks everywhere but for young kids like myself that would rather live and enjoy the rest of our lives instead dying for the interests of a few up the ladder.
