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Lin's second half vs. Lowry's "all-star span"

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Geronimo, Apr 18, 2013.

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fchowd0311 Member

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Akim523 said: ↑

Quote me on where i said Lin is better?

I clearly stated they are pretty close and the stats you listed backs up my point.

Yes Lowry is better, but the gap is closing.
Click to expand...

What is better? Lowry has better stats as the primary ball handler than someone who isn't a primary ball handler. Wouldn't that be a given?

#61 fchowd0311, Apr 19, 2013

Rockets12 Member

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Why cant people just stop talking about the past and be happy with what we have right now. Sure lowry and dragic might be better, but who cares? Theyre not on our team anymore. Its been a whole season now, its time to move on

#62 Rockets12, Apr 19, 2013
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Rockets12 said: ↑

Why cant people just stop talking about the past and be happy with what we have right now. Sure lowry and dragic might be better, but who cares? Theyre not on our team anymore. Its been a whole season now, its time to move on
Click to expand...

That was not the OP's premise.

It was the faulty assertion that Lin is somehow superior to Lowry, which is false. People are merely responding to that invitation to discuss the topic.

#63 larsv8, Apr 19, 2013
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TheRealist137 said: ↑

You have to watch the games and look at the three point shots that Dragic and Lin are getting. Lin is shooting wide open threes while Dragic is much more off the dribble and/or contested. That is not going to show up on the stats and that is where the eye test is needed. You sound biased.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, Lin shoots 3s better off the dribble.

#64 kmart9419, Apr 19, 2013
kmart9419 Member

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leebigez said: ↑

Yep and the guy at the end of the bench was 20 and 5 and couldn't get paid? The guy in phoenix had a pretty god stretch too right? You can twist it anyway u want,but Lin signing was motivated by false excitement during a total rebuild. Once they got harden,the signing didn't seem so bad because harden was the star and lin in the 4th most impactful starter out of the 5. Yeah, I said it.
Click to expand...

Funny how all the old timers are just like all the scouts that failed to draft Lin.

#65 kmart9419, Apr 19, 2013
torocan Member

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TheRealist137 said: ↑

Now you are just making up stuff to defend Lin.
Click to expand...

Actually, in this case he's referring to confirmed data from last season.

Despite shooting just 33 percent on catch-and-shoot jumpers last season, Lin shot 48 percent on jumpers off the dribble.

Highest FG pct on Jumpers off the Dribble
Minimum 90 FGA Last Season
Stephen Curry 52.9
Steve Nash 48.5
Jeremy Lin 47.9
Gary Neal 46.6
Delonte West 46.2
Felton: 32.7 FG percentage
(85th of 102 players)

Of the 102 players who attempted at least 90 jumpers off the dribble, only Stephen Curry and Steve Nash shot a higher field goal percentage than Lin. Felton ranked 85th of those 102 players, shooting just 33 percent.
Click to expand...

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/47791/felton-over-lin-are-the-knicks-lin-sane

Shooting off the dribble is completely different than catch and shoot in terms of rhythm, balance and timing, and most players have a differential of some kind between the two types of shots.

Though many players shoot better from catch and shoot situations, people tend to be best at the shots they use the most. If the shot you shoot the most is a fade away jumper, then it will at some point be better than what would seem to be an easier shot after sufficient repetitions.

#66 torocan, Apr 19, 2013
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kuku said: ↑

Really wish people would stop using PER to compare players. It's such a deceptive stat and never reflects on the level of the players.

According to PER,
- Stoudemire is 13th best player.
- There are 8 centers who are better than Dwight.
- Brook Lopez is the best Center and 5th best player in the league.
- Andray Blatche is second best Center and 14th best player.
- Brandan Wright is 20th best player.
- Those two above are better than LMAldridge and MGasol.
- Hickson is better than Marc too.

It goes on and one how flawed PER really is.
Click to expand...

I didn't use PER.... the poster I responded did, and was simply wrong concerning what he said.

#67 Nook, Apr 19, 2013

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Air Langhi said: ↑

What stat says Lin is better other than wins and loses?

Code:

Rk Player Season Age G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48 1 Jeremy Lin 2012-13 24 82 2640 14.9 .538 .490 1.4 9.1 5.3 29.4 2.5 0.8 18.8 20.8 106 107 3.0 2.5 5.4 .099 2 Kyle Lowry 2012-13 26 68 2020 17.5 .543 .482 3.2 15.9 9.5 34.6 2.5 1.0 17.7 20.3 110 106 3.5 2.1 5.6 .133

Lowry had a higher PER, better OWS, better DWS, more WS, a higher WS/48, A higher TRB%, a higher AST%, a lower TOV%, a higher TS%.

Lin has done a good job, but he isn't a top 10 point guard. Lowry seems to have attitude problem and always seems to be hurt so I don't mind having Lin, but Lowry is more productive when he is on the floor and makes less money.
Click to expand...

u are awesome my friend
#68 TheLastPope, Apr 19, 2013
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Raptors should have built around

Lowry
Big Val
A.Johnson

EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE TRADE

#69 TheLastPope, Apr 19, 2013
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Why are people so ignorant or averse to PER36? You know, the stat that actually normalizes mins played because not everyone plays the same minutes per game.

<div class="sr_share_wrap"> <table class="sr_share" id="" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size:.83em; border: 1px sold #aaa; overflow:auto;"> <colgroup><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup> <thead> <tr class="" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <th data-stat="ranker" align="right" class="ranker sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" tip="Rank" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Rk</th> <th data-stat="player" align="left" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Player</th> <th data-stat="season" align="left" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Season</th> <th data-stat="age" align="center" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Age</th> <th data-stat="g" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Games" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">G</th> <th data-stat="gs" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Games Started" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">GS</th> <th data-stat="mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Minutes Played" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">MP</th> <th data-stat="fg_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FG</th> <th data-stat="fga_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goal Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FGA</th> <th data-stat="fg_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goal Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FG%</th> <th data-stat="fg3_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3P</th> <th data-stat="fg3a_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goal Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3PA</th> <th data-stat="fg3_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goal Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3P%</th> <th data-stat="ft_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throws Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FT</th> <th data-stat="fta_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throw Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FTA</th> <th data-stat="ft_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throw Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FT%</th> <th data-stat="orb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Offensive Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">ORB</th> <th data-stat="drb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Defensive Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">DRB</th> <th data-stat="trb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Total Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">TRB</th> <th data-stat="ast_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Assists Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">AST</th> <th data-stat="stl_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Steals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">STL</th> <th data-stat="blk_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Blocks Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">BLK</th> <th data-stat="tov_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Turnovers Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">TOV</th> <th data-stat="pf_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Personal Fouls Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">PF</th> <th data-stat="pts_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Points Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">PTS</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="" data-row="0" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="1" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Lin,Jeremy" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Jeremy Lin</a></td> <td align="left" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2012-13</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">24</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">82</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">82</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2640</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.441</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.5</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.339</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.785</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">14.9</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="1" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="2" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Lowry,Kyle" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Kyle Lowry</a></td> <td align="left" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2012-13</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">26</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">68</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">52</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2020</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.5</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.1</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.401</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.0</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.362</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.3</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.795</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.0</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">14.1</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot></tfoot></table><div id="" style="font-size: 0.83em;" class="sr_share">Provided by <a href="http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Basketball-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=lowryky01&y1=2013&p2=linje01&y2=2013&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#per_minute">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 4/19/2013.</div> </div>

Those two look pretty comparable to me. Except for that fact that this is Lowry's 7th pro season compared to Lin's 3rd and Lin is 2 years younger than Lowry.

In this current reality that we live in, Lin > Lowry. The only thing that's debatable is by what margin is Lin better.

#70 Roxs, Apr 19, 2013
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Roxs said: ↑

Why are people so ignorant or averse to PER36? You know, the stat that actually normalizes mins played because not everyone plays the same minutes per game.

<div class="sr_share_wrap"> <table class="sr_share" id="" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size:.83em; border: 1px sold #aaa; overflow:auto;"> <colgroup><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup> <thead> <tr class="" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <th data-stat="ranker" align="right" class="ranker sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" tip="Rank" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Rk</th> <th data-stat="player" align="left" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Player</th> <th data-stat="season" align="left" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Season</th> <th data-stat="age" align="center" class="tooltip sort_default_asc" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">Age</th> <th data-stat="g" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Games" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">G</th> <th data-stat="gs" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Games Started" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">GS</th> <th data-stat="mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Minutes Played" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">MP</th> <th data-stat="fg_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FG</th> <th data-stat="fga_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goal Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FGA</th> <th data-stat="fg_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Field Goal Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FG%</th> <th data-stat="fg3_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3P</th> <th data-stat="fg3a_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goal Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3PA</th> <th data-stat="fg3_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="3-Point Field Goal Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3P%</th> <th data-stat="ft_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throws Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FT</th> <th data-stat="fta_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throw Attempts Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FTA</th> <th data-stat="ft_pct" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Free Throw Percentage" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">FT%</th> <th data-stat="orb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Offensive Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">ORB</th> <th data-stat="drb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Defensive Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">DRB</th> <th data-stat="trb_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Total Rebounds Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">TRB</th> <th data-stat="ast_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Assists Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">AST</th> <th data-stat="stl_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Steals Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">STL</th> <th data-stat="blk_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Blocks Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">BLK</th> <th data-stat="tov_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Turnovers Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">TOV</th> <th data-stat="pf_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Personal Fouls Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">PF</th> <th data-stat="pts_per_mp" align="right" class="tooltip" tip="Points Per 36 Minutes" style="background-color: #ddd; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 2px;" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">PTS</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr class="" data-row="0" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="1" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Lin,Jeremy" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/linje01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Jeremy Lin</a></td> <td align="left" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2012-13</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">24</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">82</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">82</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2640</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">12.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.441</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.5</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.339</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.785</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">6.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.2</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">14.9</td> </tr> <tr class="" data-row="1" onmouseover="" onmouseout="" id=""> <td align="right" csk="2" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2</td> <td align="left" class=" bold_text" csk="Lowry,Kyle" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick=""><a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lowryky01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Kyle Lowry</a></td> <td align="left" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2012-13</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">26</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">68</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">52</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2020</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.5</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">11.1</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.401</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.0</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.362</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.3</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">.795</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.0</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">4.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">5.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">7.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">1.7</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">0.4</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">2.8</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">3.9</td> <td align="right" style="border: 1px solid #ccc; padding: 2px 3px 2px 2px; white-space: nowrap; " onmouseover="" onmouseout="" onclick="">14.1</td> </tr> </tbody> <tfoot></tfoot></table><div id="" style="font-size: 0.83em;" class="sr_share">Provided by <a href="http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Basketball-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=lowryky01&y1=2013&p2=linje01&y2=2013&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#per_minute">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 4/19/2013.</div> </div>

Those two look pretty comparable to me. Except for that fact that this is Lowry's 7th pro season compared to Lin's 3rd and Lin is 2 years younger than Lowry.

In this current reality that we live in, Lin > Lowry. The only thing that's debatable is by what margin is Lin better.
Click to expand...

Sigh, you Lin fans just live in your own reality.

You guys should be a case study in college on how to misinterpret statistics.

#71 larsv8, Apr 19, 2013
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rockbox said: ↑

I like Lin, but he was the 4th best rocket this season behind Harden, Asik, and Parsons.
Click to expand...

I don't typically like to rank guys on a team because basketball is so interdependent but anyway.

I kind of disagree with this to an extent. I love parsons but Chandler can't create his own shot at all. 74% of Parsons shots are assisted vs 40% of Lins shots being assisted & 30% of Hardens shots being assisted & 70% of Asiks.

The best players on this team are typically those that can create for themselves & others. Parsons can't create for himself at all. So don't necessarily agree that he is the 2nd best player on this team. All of his shot attempts are created by somebody else, typically Lin & Harden. If you were to take Parsons off his team & put him in another offense with different guards I don't think he would be as effective there as he is in Houston.

Now parsons has shown a consistency that Lin has not this season. So in summation, parsons will never be any more than an All Star player until he learns how to create for himself & Lin will never be an All Star player until he learns how to consistently play at a high level. So right now our team is James Harden & we don't really have second best player. Parsons & Lin are tied for it I guess.

Although I do think Omer is the guy that deserves the most credit considering he is the only thing that keeps this team playing respectable defense.

#72 roxxy, Apr 19, 2013
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it's april 2013 now

#73 fishguy91, Apr 19, 2013

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I liked both of them more before the injuries. Before Lowry's ankle and Lin's knee they would both recklessly bulldoze through the paint for and1's. Where have you gone? Come back!

#74 jocar, Apr 19, 2013
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jocar said: ↑

I liked both of them more before the injuries. Before Lowry's ankle and Lin's knee they would both recklessly bulldoze through the paint for and1's. Where have you gone? Come back!
Click to expand...

Lowry is limited by Casey & Lin is limited by Harden.

#75 roxxy, Apr 19, 2013
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Spiegel said: ↑

Lowry is a malcontent cancer. Lin is a fantastic teammate who is a great guy to have in the trenches. Lowry granted was a monster, but he had to many mental issues.
Click to expand...

iz zat u spiegel? OMG.... Spiegel a LOF? End of the World! Waaaaa.......

#76 Jenopogi, Apr 20, 2013
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I just watched highlights for that Knicks-Heat game last year where Jeremy really struggled for the first time. He seems to have really bulked up. He seemed pretty slim back then

#77 apcgamb24, Apr 20, 2013
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apcgamb24 said: ↑

I just watched highlights for that Knicks-Heat game last year where Jeremy really struggled for the first time. He seems to have really bulked up. He seemed pretty slim back then
Click to expand...

Yeah looks like he has, he's a good size, 6'3" and 200 lbs. That's like a typical NFL safety. Of course he doesn't look as swole as an NFL safety because a lot of his weight in in his lower body and because of his lanky built. He doesn't need to bulk up anymore and sacrifice any of his elite speed.

I had a conversation with a trainer at the gym that claimed to have worked with Lin before and he told me Lin was closer to 6'4" than 6'3" and now weighs 210 or something. He could have been bored and was just telling a bunch of a bull though lol.

#78 Geronimo, Apr 20, 2013

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Nook said: ↑

Silly thread... very deceptive. It cherry picks statistics.

Lowry was clearly better than Lin, he was the better defender, rebounder, passer, got to the line more and had higher TS, OWS, DWS.

Having said that, Lowry had health issues and we were able to flip Lowry for Harden... so it is a win/win situation.

Lin is Lin, not anyone else. He is a good player and has gotten better as time has gone on... end of discussion.
Click to expand...

Cherry picking stats helps Lowry in this case, silly boy. Think about it... I specifically picked Lowry's 38 games before his injury...seeing how eventually he lost his starting job and obviously his numbers went down by the end of the season.

I could have easily done this instead: Linsanity >>> last year's Lowry. /end thead, but I wanted to compare both of them as a Rocket since Lin won't be the man anymore.

P.S. Not once in this thread did I say or imply Lin's first year as a Rocket was better than Lowry's last year as a Rocket...in fact I even said Lowry's year was better, including his defense and rebounding. But the point of this thread was to show that after Lin was healthy, he wasn't that much worse than Lowry's best span as a Rocket, hardly deceptive at all.

#79 Geronimo, Apr 20, 2013
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roxxy said: ↑

Lowry is limited by Casey & Lin is limited by Harden.
Click to expand...

Why's it have to be someone else's fault? Lin and Lowry are incapable of regressing? How do you explain the times they have the ball in their hands attacking the rim and in that split second decide to bail out instead "go for it"? Lowry is thinking "Casey" and Lin's thinking "Harden" as they slash toward the rim? No, they're trying to score at that moment. Either they lost a mental or physical edge, or the defense gained one and they couldn't compensate. Maybe they figured getting banged up wasn't the best thing for longevity?

#80 jocar, Apr 20, 2013

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